Religion or mankind's horrible nature - the chicken or the egg?

Loaf | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Religion obviously arose from the shitty nature of mankind, but is it a further result of religion, or does religion simply exist because of the nature of mankind and nothing more? Or would putting a stop to religion end suffering of humanity?


Loaf | Legendary Invincible!
 
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The reason I say end suffering of humanity, is because in the big picture of things, ask yourself what religion is really for. We're a very scared race of people, we fear death and we fear our very nature. We think that given free reign humanity would basically destroy itself. That obviously reflects on the poor nature of human kind, but it also reflects on the nature of why people feel the need religion. They're afraid, they feel helpless. So, in a sense though, I feel like taking religion away would solve a lot of those problems. It would lead people to a more enlightened view of human kind, it would lead to a more enlightened society as a whole.


Loaf | Legendary Invincible!
 
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So basically religion keeps us trapped in this cycle of fear, it does nothing to advocate people getting out of it. It wants people to be trapped in this idea that we are a scared race of people, so they need to make up some reason why they shouldn't be afraid. It doesn't really solve the problem though, it just gives people a fake alternative and the problem is still there. It only serves to distort people's point of view, because now they can't agree on anything and they're trying to use their religion to govern their very lives. It's so funny to me when people argue "what is god trying to tell us", god doesn't exist and it's so damn foolish. It's like they have to say he exists all the time, just to convince themselves. No one gives a shit about evidence. They're so nervous they need there to be a god to make themselves feel comforted. That's why it makes me so fucking annoyed.


Septy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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See you Cowgirl,
Someday, somewhere
Religion arose from mankind's desire to explain the unknown.


Loaf | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Religion arose from mankind's desire to explain the unknown.
Yeah, and when you think about it, a utopia would be a place where people can think for themselves. If you don't control your own mind, someone will control it for you. That is basically what religion is; people who are afraid of their own human nature, afraid of the world around them. It's here because we think that without it, the world would basically fall into despair. It's funny because people really are afraid of their own nature, that's why people feel the need for religion. They're afraid of their own nature, they're afraid of the nature of other human beings, they're afraid of death. It's really sad to me that religion exists at all, I feel like if we woke up and started think for ourselves, we would actually be one step closer to an actual civilized world. It's sad to me that the society we live in right now is is entrenched in this paralyzed mindset.


Assassin 11D7 | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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"flaming nipple chops"-Your host, the man they call Ghost.

To say, 'nothing is true', is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say, 'everything is permitted', is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.
You've very clearly made up your mind on the topic for now, but I'd say you are going too far.
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It's so funny to me when people argue "what is god trying to tell us", god doesn't exist and it's so damn foolish. It's like they have to say he exists all the time, just to convince themselves. No one gives a shit about evidence. They're so nervous they need there to be a god to make themselves feel comforted.
The whole god doesn't exist thing is something that really can't be proven, and so you cannot win that argument when arguing with a theist, nor can a theist win. Basically, it's a painful waste of time for everyone involved.

People do in fact, care about evidence. There have been many notable Christian scientists throughout time and to assume that Christians don't care about evidence anymore is an erroneous claim. Referring specifically to evidence about the existence of God, you again run into the issue of you cannot disprove God with modern science.

While it is true many people do turn to religion as a form of comfort for the many difficulties they face in their lives, there's nothing inherently wrong about this. It's a community of people coming together over the shared idea of something greater than each of them that binds them together and encourages them to help each other.

You seem to focus on this conception you have of religious people being absolutely, pant-shittingly, terrified of death and just about everything. I can't say where you got this idea from, but I can tell you that it isn't true for every theist or Christian at the least.


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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Loaf | Legendary Invincible!
 
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You've very clearly made up your mind on the topic for now, but I'd say you are going too far.
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It's so funny to me when people argue "what is god trying to tell us", god doesn't exist and it's so damn foolish. It's like they have to say he exists all the time, just to convince themselves. No one gives a shit about evidence. They're so nervous they need there to be a god to make themselves feel comforted.
The whole god doesn't exist thing is something that really can't be proven, and so you cannot win that argument when arguing with a theist, nor can a theist win. Basically, it's a painful waste of time for everyone involved.

People do in fact, care about evidence. There have been many notable Christian scientists throughout time and to assume that Christians don't care about evidence anymore is an erroneous claim. Referring specifically to evidence about the existence of God, you again run into the issue of you cannot disprove God with modern science.

While it is true many people do turn to religion as a form of comfort for the many difficulties they face in their lives, there's nothing inherently wrong about this. It's a community of people coming together over the shared idea of something greater than each of them that binds them together and encourages them to help each other.

You seem to focus on this conception you have of religious people being absolutely, pant-shittingly, terrified of death and just about everything. I can't say where you got this idea from, but I can tell you that it isn't true for every theist or Christian at the least.
You may as well say a fucking unicorn exists too, or basically anything you can make up that can't be disproven. It's called an falsifiable hypothesis.


Loaf | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Look man, you can't say Christians aren't afraid of anything, you can't fucking ignore that Jesus is what their religion is about. They literally believe that he fucking died and that he's coming back to save the Christians. "Oh that's not real christianity" I don't care how many bastard religions there are, who claim to be a part of Christianity; if god was truly all powerful he would give us some guidelines that we can all understand. I can't believe I'm even having this argument, this is the bullshit semantic trap that everyone who's religious gets caught up on. No, do I have to snap my fingers to get you to come back to the bigger picture? Stop trying to refute and counter point me on what I say, it's such a circular, gigantic waste of fucking time. Religion is nothing more than a tool, used by societies who are living in fear. It grows out of ignorance and confusion, it's put there to control people who are spiraling out of control. It's a fucking awful wolf in sheep's clothing, it needs to be fucking destroyed. I can't stand that idiots actually follow religion.
Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 12:06:08 PM by Loaf


Assassin 11D7 | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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"flaming nipple chops"-Your host, the man they call Ghost.

To say, 'nothing is true', is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say, 'everything is permitted', is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.
Basically, it's a painful waste of time for everyone involved.
I'll make it easy for you.

He doesn't exist. You claim he exists, but you have no proof. Essentially, it boils down to believing a kid has an invisible friend only he can see or hear.
Thanks fam, I'm sure that this will change my views on life and also the views of all theists out there. Surely this will go somewhere great.

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Religious scientists have been held back by their superstitious beliefs. Einstein, for example.

Again, you can't prove a claim you're making. Thus, he doesn't exist.
I'm not aware of how Einstein was held back by his religious beliefs, and I'm sure there were many that weren't. 

Personally, I'd rather not get into the argument of "inability to prove a claim doesn't mean the claim is false" for the umpteenth time. 

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There is, actually.

It's discomfort, fear, and danger that drives us to be the best we can be. To break barriers like oceans and space.
So you think that religion makes one absent from discomfort, fear, and danger? I find this perplexing as I've met many religious people that use their religious communities to help them overcome and work through those things. Ultimately though, it requires them to make the real pushes in the right direction, and the community only serves to guide them along, like asking a group of friends or family for help when you have questions.

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Maybe not, but to deny these major religions are anything more than a slightly more sophisticated death cult is laughable.
Feel free to elaborate on how they only serve as that. While mass/organized religions do have their inevitable faults, how are they in sum death cults?


Assassin 11D7 | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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"flaming nipple chops"-Your host, the man they call Ghost.

To say, 'nothing is true', is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say, 'everything is permitted', is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.
Look man, you can't say Christians aren't afraid of anything, you can't fucking ignore that Jesus is what their religion is about. They literally believe that he fucking died and that he's coming back to save the Christians. "Oh that's not real christianity" I don't care how many bastard religions there are, who claim to be a part of Christianity
So, why you arguing that in the first place if your second point invalidates your first?

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if god was truly all powerful he would give us some guidelines that we can all understand.
Uh, isn't that what the 10 commandments and the Bible are for?
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I can't believe I'm even having this argument, this is the bullshit semantic trap that everyone who's religious gets caught up on. No, do I have to snap my fingers to get you to come back to the bigger picture? Stop trying to refute and counter point me on what I say, it's such a circular, gigantic waste of fucking time. Religion is nothing more than a tool, used by societies who are living in fear. It grows out of ignorance and confusion, it's put there to control people who are spiraling out of control. It's a fucking awful wolf in sheep's clothing, it needs to be fucking destroyed. I can't stand that idiots actually follow religion.
Calm down, Emperor, it gun be k.



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"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us'."
-Saint Anthony the Great
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Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 01:31:50 PM by Le Neckbeard Roman Man


Cadenza has moved on | Ascended Posting Riot
 
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The reason I'm finding myself drawn to Christianity is precisely because I'm afraid of what I'll do if I don't have any guidelines or restraints, and instead let everything be relative. It's mind control in the same way that education is mind control, you take a person and you make them act in a certain way because they don't yet know enough to realize the consequences of acting otherwise. I'm aware of my flaws which is why I try to fix them and this is another method to do so.