Does it? How?

You only have to look to gangbangers and how they reward and praise each other as "homies". How cannot it not be a culture at this point?

I'm pretty hesitant to believe the white Scottish guy living in Scotland who can only link some bullshit studies.

Nice. Bring up my nationality and heritage when it's completely irrelevant. Who's really the racist here?

How so?

Crips. Bloods. At this point it's practically immoral not to be identified in some sort of gang amongst the black community youth.

We're talking about black people, aren't we? Fancy words like "sociocultural norms" doesn't change the fact that your post simplified down reads as "Black culture rewards and reveres violence, thus making black people more violent than other races, simply based on their culture. This is more prevalent among black skinned people of African descent than others."

Actually it really does mean sociocultural norms. But interpret how you wish, if that's what keeps your preconceived biases afloat.

I would've thought nobody would be stupid enough to say something like "only culture influences violence".

Actually it just means "show me something substantial and empirical that isn't just life experience or some amazing, fantastical personal story." Not that I'd expect you to understand.

Have any of these people conducting these studies lived in a ghetto?

Again, anecdotal.

Have you?

Could ask you the same.

Have you or these so called researchers had any of these experiences? No.

More than likely, seeing as how they published an academic paper about it.

But even then, that shouldn't matter. You should know it's fueled mostly by poverty, as should the researchers.

Funny how you attribute Islam to violence amongst Arabs, but when it comes to the black population, culture is completely off the cards. Hm, weird.

There's no set ideology all blacks follow

Yup, thought this was obvious to everyone at this point.

and violence is prevalent across all of America.

Tell me something I fucking don't know. Violence is prevalent across the world. 1+1 = 2.

It's an American problem.

More like a cultural problem, but I can see you're reluctant to factor this in.

And it stems mostly from poverty when it comes to crime.

I've already refuted the poverty facet when it comes to criminality. As has Meta. Why are we still discussing this?

There are criminals who kill for the fun of it.

And the black population seem to be the biggest culprits for it.

Gangbangers kill "enemies" for "respect".

Which reconciles with my cultural argument.

You don't get paid to shoot the opposition. Is that a culture of violence? Not necessarily.

LOL

These are kids with nothing who are struggling to eat a single meal a day and need a sense of belonging.

Kay, so this is either a non sequitur, or you're pulling the appeals to emotion.

They go shoot somebody and they get treated with respect, and start making fast money.

Once again, C.U.L.T.U.R.E.

But to say gangs formed and that the majority of crimes committed are for the fuck of it and that most criminals aren't fueled by desperation is a perception so removed from reality I doubt having a debate with you is worth it.

You're misinterpreting my position. Gangs aren't committing crime for the "fuck of it." They're doing it because they have incentives and rewards for doing so.

You'll likely keep asking me to link a study, as if these people are the end all be all and have never been wrong,

Actually yes, I will, because at the end of the day, I'm more likely to take the word of experts who have extensively studied criminology, as opposed to some Iranian hothead who happens to post on a backwater spin off of a videogame forum.

or that they haven't written studies with little to no research or experiments and taken statistics then skewed then to give the reader a certain perception.

So you're an expert in criminology now?

I've seen all of this firsthand.

Remember that anecdotal evidence I asked you not to provide?

I'm telling you you're wrong

Because you say so, and I'm just suddenly supposed to take your word for it, right?

and so are these researchers.

"durr, my preconceived biases > empirical evidence."

You're not going to accept that

Because it's bullshit.

and I'm not going to be able to link a study

Because there is none.

because what I'm talking about there's nobody with the balls to really highlight just how fucking terrible the living conditions in some American cities are.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+terrible+are+living+conditions+in+the+us

They'd rather blame it on a "culture of violence"

Because it is the culprit.

and act like poverty isn't a real issue.

It's an issue, but not in the way you're positing.

That these people should just "get a job" and "be normal" when they live in warzones.

Created by their culture no doubt.

Just going on record to say I don't agree with the OP.

I think it's naive to totally discount poverty, just as it is naive to assume culture has little to do with it. But stylising your sources as "racist facts", when they have nothing to do with race, is nothing short of close-minded bigotry.

You'll notice ITT that I never disregarded poverty as a factor. I just don't regard it as a champion over culture as an impetus for criminality.

What exactly hasn't it to do with race? Crime is very prominent amongst the black community. Is it racist to say that whites are the most prevalent in regards to sexualised crime? No. So why establish this double standard?

I will say, however, that it's interesting how gangs haven't formed--at least to the same extent--in ghettos with different demographics involved: namely oriental like Malaysians and Chinese. Of course you have things like the Chinese mafia, but this is more an organising crime issue originating in the home country having been exported to the US.

This doesn't make the information any more racist in this thread, though, there's nothing inherent about blacks which will lead them to this higher rate of gang participation. It's just cultural. In the same way the misogynistic cultures of non-oriental Asian cultures leads to a disproportionate amount of rape and sexualised crime here in the UK.

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 23, 2015, 05:15:22 AM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 22, 2015, 10:32:09 PM

Is it racist to say that whites are the most prevalent in regards to sexualised crime? No. So why establish this double standard?

But that's exactly the point. The information in this thread isn't racist, it's to do with culture. The black people disproportionately committing crime aren't doing it because of the colour of their skin; if you raise a white guy in the same circumstances then he'd probably turn out the same.

I don't really see what's racist about pointing out which demographics commit the most crimes.

That's exactly my point; your stylisation in the title of this information as being a collection of "racist facts" is, at best, inflammatory.

I really don't care if it's "inflammatory." It's the truth, and I'm going to continue to reverberate it in this forum. I place the truth of higher value than harming some delicate sensibilities any day of the week.

You're missing the point; it's not that it's inflammatory, per se, it's that inflammatory without good justification. You yourself have acknowledged that this is everything to do with culture, and practically nothing to do with any inherent characteristics of different racial groups. So I'm still entirely unsure why you thought the use of the term "racist facts" was appropriate. It's not that it's just bound to cause trouble--I couldn't care less about that--it's that it has no bearing on the facts, nor even the perspective your trying to operate from.

I purposefully used the term "racist" to make a mockery of the classic retorts people resort to when we talk about African Americans and the crimes they commit as a demographic. I probably should've implemented quote marks around the term in hindsight though.

That's fair enough, then, I suppose.