Racist facts about African Americans we daren't talk about

Mordo · May 20, 2015, 09:35:41 AM

FACT: Despite making up just 13% of the population, blacks commit around half of homicides in the United States. 6 times higher than whites.

Sources: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

FACT: Between 1999 and 2013, 4,334 whites died as a result of being shot by police compared to 1,750 blacks.

Sources: http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html (select Legal intervention between 1999 and 2013 and choose either whites or blacks. It won't allow me to directly link the data, although I can screencap it for the skeptics.)

FACT: In 2013, black criminals carried out 38% of murders, compared to 31.1% for whites, despite the fact that there are five times more white people in the U.S. Poverty is not in any way correlated with racial crime.

Sources: http://www.udel.edu/soc/faculty/parker/SOCI836_S08_files/McNulty_Crim01.pdf

I didn't make this thread in mind to be purposefully inflammatory. Black people in the United States are more likely to be victims of violent confrontations with police officers than whites because they commit more violent crimes than whites per capita. Police brutality targeting ANYONE will not subside until this becomes part of the national conversation.

Cindy · May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM

ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation

challengerX · May 20, 2015, 09:37:56 AM

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Mordo · May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM

Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM

ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation

I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.

I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.

Cindy · May 20, 2015, 09:46:33 AM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM

Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.

I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.

Crime is more prevalent amongst lower-class communities, and lower-class communities happen to have a majority of black people.

It has nothing to do with being black or with "black culture", it has to do with being a bunch of poor motherfuckers. I can guarantee you that if all of these same people were white, Hispanic, or Asian, they'd still be just as violent.

challengerX · May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM

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Mordo · May 20, 2015, 09:51:29 AM

Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:46:33 AM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.

I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Crime is more prevalent amongst lower-class communities, and lower-class communities happen to have a majority of black people.

It has nothing to do with being black or with "black culture", it has to do with being a bunch of poor motherfuckers. I can guarantee you that if all of these same people were white, Hispanic, or Asian, they'd still be just as violent.

It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.

Mordo · May 20, 2015, 09:52:12 AM

Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.
LOL

Spoken like a true retard. A higher proportion of blacks are poor compared to whites.

Quote
I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Because they're poorer.

You can read all the statistics you like and twist them to say blacks are more violent because they're black, but we all know that's bullshit.

Quote

It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.

I knew you'd be the first to sperg out about this.

challengerX · May 20, 2015, 10:15:24 AM

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Mordo · May 20, 2015, 11:46:52 AM

Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 10:15:24 AM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.
LOL

Spoken like a true retard. A higher proportion of blacks are poor compared to whites.

Quote
I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Because they're poorer.

You can read all the statistics you like and twist them to say blacks are more violent because they're black, but we all know that's bullshit.

Quote
It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.
I knew you'd be the first to sperg out about this.
Poverty does cause violent crime.

A state of hopelessness will lessen your sympathy for people and you'll lash out at everybody.

And as I said, my academic study suggests otherwise.

Even if it were the case, the argument still doesn't hold up morally. I don't care how desperate you get. Being poor doesn't justify murdering, robbing and raping people.

Mad Max · May 20, 2015, 11:58:36 AM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 11:46:52 AM

And as I said, my academic study suggests otherwise.

There's also an academic study that said vaccines cause autism.

challengerX · May 20, 2015, 12:03:45 PM

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More Than Mortal · May 20, 2015, 12:13:52 PM

Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:46:33 AM

It has nothing to do with being black or with "black culture"

Actually it's mostly to do with culture.

White southerners had the same problems in northern cities around the 1950s. Nothing to do with race, everything to do with underlying values.

Mordo · May 20, 2015, 12:43:58 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 20, 2015, 11:58:36 AM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 11:46:52 AM
And as I said, my academic study suggests otherwise.
There's also an academic study that said vaccines cause autism.

A study that holds no scientific basis isn't "academic."

Mordo · May 20, 2015, 12:45:17 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 12:03:45 PM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.
LOL

Spoken like a true retard. A higher proportion of blacks are poor compared to whites.

Quote
I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Because they're poorer.

You can read all the statistics you like and twist them to say blacks are more violent because they're black, but we all know that's bullshit.

Quote
It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.
I knew you'd be the first to sperg out about this.
Poverty does cause violent crime.

A state of hopelessness will lessen your sympathy for people and you'll lash out at everybody.
And as I said, my academic study suggests otherwise.

Even if it were the case, the argument still doesn't hold up morally. I don't care how desperate you get. Being poor doesn't justify murdering, robbing and raping people.
Who said it's justified?

I'm just saying it's mostly the cause. How do morals come into play? People get desperate, they respond appropriately. It may not be "right", but you do whatever to survive. That's just reality.

Regardless of whether it's wrong or right, it still isn't the impetus for violent crime. There's compelling evidence to suggest it is indeed, culture that influences behaviour, not lack of social mobility.

Azumarill · May 20, 2015, 12:58:27 PM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 12:45:17 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.
LOL

Spoken like a true retard. A higher proportion of blacks are poor compared to whites.

Quote
I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Because they're poorer.

You can read all the statistics you like and twist them to say blacks are more violent because they're black, but we all know that's bullshit.

Quote
It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.
I knew you'd be the first to sperg out about this.
Poverty does cause violent crime.

A state of hopelessness will lessen your sympathy for people and you'll lash out at everybody.
And as I said, my academic study suggests otherwise.

Even if it were the case, the argument still doesn't hold up morally. I don't care how desperate you get. Being poor doesn't justify murdering, robbing and raping people.
Who said it's justified?

I'm just saying it's mostly the cause. How do morals come into play? People get desperate, they respond appropriately. It may not be "right", but you do whatever to survive. That's just reality.
Regardless of whether it's wrong or right, it still isn't the impetus for violent crime. There's compelling evidence to suggest it is indeed, culture that influences behaviour, not lack of social mobility.

has it ever occurred to you that perhaps extreme social stratification might deeply affect the subcultures of the various classes? hmm?

Mordo · May 20, 2015, 01:00:58 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on May 20, 2015, 12:58:27 PM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.
LOL

Spoken like a true retard. A higher proportion of blacks are poor compared to whites.

Quote
I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Because they're poorer.

You can read all the statistics you like and twist them to say blacks are more violent because they're black, but we all know that's bullshit.

Quote
It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.
I knew you'd be the first to sperg out about this.
Poverty does cause violent crime.

A state of hopelessness will lessen your sympathy for people and you'll lash out at everybody.
And as I said, my academic study suggests otherwise.

Even if it were the case, the argument still doesn't hold up morally. I don't care how desperate you get. Being poor doesn't justify murdering, robbing and raping people.
Who said it's justified?

I'm just saying it's mostly the cause. How do morals come into play? People get desperate, they respond appropriately. It may not be "right", but you do whatever to survive. That's just reality.
Regardless of whether it's wrong or right, it still isn't the impetus for violent crime. There's compelling evidence to suggest it is indeed, culture that influences behaviour, not lack of social mobility.
has it ever occurred to you that perhaps extreme social stratification might deeply affect the subcultures of the various classes? hmm?

It could definitely play a minor role, but I don't think it's as a prevalent factor as everyone makes it out to be. Plus it's also a correlation =/= causation fallacy which I was incorrectly called out for.

"Black people commit more crime, and are also economically disadvantaged. Poverty must be the cause!"

Yeah no, that holds no truck with me.

challengerX · May 20, 2015, 01:02:02 PM

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challengerX · May 20, 2015, 01:03:05 PM

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Mordo · May 20, 2015, 01:05:31 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 01:02:02 PM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.
LOL

Spoken like a true retard. A higher proportion of blacks are poor compared to whites.

Quote
I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Because they're poorer.

You can read all the statistics you like and twist them to say blacks are more violent because they're black, but we all know that's bullshit.

Quote
It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.
I knew you'd be the first to sperg out about this.
Poverty does cause violent crime.

A state of hopelessness will lessen your sympathy for people and you'll lash out at everybody.
And as I said, my academic study suggests otherwise.

Even if it were the case, the argument still doesn't hold up morally. I don't care how desperate you get. Being poor doesn't justify murdering, robbing and raping people.
Who said it's justified?

I'm just saying it's mostly the cause. How do morals come into play? People get desperate, they respond appropriately. It may not be "right", but you do whatever to survive. That's just reality.
Regardless of whether it's wrong or right, it still isn't the impetus for violent crime. There's compelling evidence to suggest it is indeed, culture that influences behaviour, not lack of social mobility.
And what culture is that?

Gang culture came about from poverty and violence. Kids formed gangs to protect themselves and make money. They resorted to violence a lot of time to make the money.

Unless your answer is "black culture". In which case I'd really love to hear what the hell that is and how blacks are prone to violence simply because of the pigmentation of their skin, instead of their surroundings and circumstances.

A culture that rewards violent behaviour. A culture that reveres criminal behaviour. This isn't of course exclusive to the black community, but it's definitely more prevalent compared to other demographics. It has nothing to do with the colour of their skin, and more to do with sociocultural norms and behaviors that have taken a hold. Once again, the race card isn't appreciated in this debate.

I'd also like to see some strong evidence (that isn't anecdotal) about how poverty influences criminality.

More Than Mortal · May 20, 2015, 01:13:31 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 01:03:05 PM

Do explain.

A lot of the time certain values that a community holds leads to entrenched impoverishment. Especially this bullshit about black people being "oppressed" and whitey keeping him down; of course, racism exists, but it breeds a tendency for blacks to blame whites as opposed to looking at their own culture and their own values. Of course, many of them are significantly disadvantaged by a failing school system, which no doubt contributes to the perpetuation of these poor values.

But from the 1870s-1930s, blacks had both higher employment and marriage rates than whites. And, as I mentioned above with the little bit of information about white southerners having the same kinds of issues with integration, work ethic and cultural disparities. It's nothing at all to do with race, a lot to do with culture and some shitty luck thrown in their for good measure. . . Such as being born in a country which will throw your ass in gaol for having some weed, which also has a fucking horrible education system.

PSU · May 20, 2015, 01:14:57 PM

ITT: Liberals cant handle the truth

More Than Mortal · May 20, 2015, 01:17:24 PM

Just going on record to say I don't agree with the OP.

I think it's naive to totally discount poverty, just as it is naive to assume culture has little to do with it. But stylising your sources as "racist facts", when they have nothing to do with race, is nothing short of close-minded bigotry.

challengerX · May 20, 2015, 01:20:56 PM

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challengerX · May 20, 2015, 01:23:14 PM

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PSU · May 20, 2015, 01:23:35 PM

You can't say: "But there are more whites on welfare than blacks"

And then in the next sentence discount that Blacks STILL make up a shit ton more of violent crimes despite being a significantly lower percentage of the population.

Its not racist, its just facts. I know a ton of blacks (Who I work/converse/am friends with) that totally agree that their race has a problem committing crimes.

challengerX · May 20, 2015, 01:27:42 PM

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Azumarill · May 20, 2015, 01:29:27 PM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 01:05:31 PM

I'd also like to see some strong evidence (that isn't anecdotal) about how poverty influences criminality.

have you even attempted to research this yourself?

http://www.nationaldialoguenetwork.org/poverty-and-crime/
http://my.fit.edu/~gabrenya/social/readings/ses.pdf

There's a bunch of other scholarly stuff I found but it's mostly locked behind paywalls/in JSTOR making it really hard to glean the absolute truth. There is more nuance to it than this but you can bet your ass that aspects of culture are deeply affected by social class.

Lord Starch · May 22, 2015, 07:49:16 AM

Actually thinking poverty and being granted rights a generation ago doesn't have anything to do with it.

Forgewolf · May 22, 2015, 09:41:13 AM

Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 10:15:24 AM

Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: challengerX on May 20, 2015, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: Arthur's 666 Vagina Memes on May 20, 2015, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: Saerveyn on May 20, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
ITT: Not understanding the difference between causation and correlation
I do, that's why I illustrated that poverty isn't even a direct correlation between crime amongst blacks, let alone a causation.
LOL

Spoken like a true retard. A higher proportion of blacks are poor compared to whites.

Quote
I'm not sure how anything else can be attributed to correlation though. Crime is more prevalent amongst blacks. There's really no sugar coating it.
Because they're poorer.

You can read all the statistics you like and twist them to say blacks are more violent because they're black, but we all know that's bullshit.

Quote
It helps if you look at my sources. I directed you to a study that explains poverty doesn't have much to do with violent crime.
I knew you'd be the first to sperg out about this.
Poverty does cause violent crime.

A state of hopelessness will lessen your sympathy for people and you'll lash out at everybody.

It does if you are also raised poorly.. If your parents taught you little to nothing or were just down right, horrible parents.