PRIVATE PYLE DO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU CAN'T DO ONE MEASLY PULL-UP?

Super Irish · August 17, 2016, 11:54:30 AM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 08:10:03 PM

Quote from: PsygnIrish on August 16, 2016, 07:59:30 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 07:47:33 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 16, 2016, 07:45:56 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 07:43:48 PM
Quote from: PsygnIrish on August 16, 2016, 07:39:31 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 02:33:24 PM

But those (women) who do pass have every right to fight on the battlefield.

But as shown, none have.
Then there's no problem and all of you have nothing to worry about.

But when and if one does, she deserves a spot in infantry, same as any man.
"men and women should be treated and viewed as exact equals even though it's been proven time and time again they aren't and I accept this, but I'm still going to whine"
They should be treated as equals under the law, of course.

And they have. They didn't qualify.
And they shouldn't get in. Only those who pass the qualification requirements should. If that's no current women, then none should be able to enlist. If a woman does eventually qualify, then she should be able to serve on the front lines, same as any man.

I don't see why you keep repeating this, I haven't stated anything but the facts.

None have qualified regardless of my or your opinion on the matter, so it's business of usual.

Elai · August 17, 2016, 12:04:32 PM

Quote from: PsygnIrish on August 17, 2016, 11:54:30 AM

I don't see why you keep repeating this, I haven't stated anything but the facts.

None have qualified regardless of my or your opinion on the matter, so it's business of usual.

chill out man.

what "facts" are you referring to? that no woman has qualified? he acknowledges that.

R o c k e t · August 17, 2016, 12:43:48 PM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 03:55:41 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 16, 2016, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 16, 2016, 03:53:37 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 16, 2016, 03:51:55 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 03:50:53 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 16, 2016, 03:50:34 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 03:50:15 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 16, 2016, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 16, 2016, 02:49:54 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 02:33:24 PM
This is why all of your fears of a doomsday situation if women are allowed to serve in combat roles is ridiculous. A very small fraction of women would even pass the requirements to join.

But those who do pass have every right to fight on the battlefield.
Nope
Yep
Nope
Yep
Nope
Yep
Nope
Yep
Nope
Yep
Nope
Yep

shut the FUCK up

SecondClass · August 17, 2016, 01:28:12 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on August 17, 2016, 04:46:02 AM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 16, 2016, 02:33:24 PM
But those who do pass have every right to fight on the battlefield.
Given that your entire moral philosophy is basically based on consent and the NAP, why are you so eager to expand the amount of people who could potentially go to war?

There's nothing inherently wrong with an army or war, only in how they're used. If another Hitler arises and starts taking over countries in Europe, we would have a moral responsibility to get involved. I know nothing about the NAP and neither support it or condemn it, but consent is the root of morality, with equality following from it. If a man is legally allowed to do something under the law, and then a woman is prohibited from doing that very same thing because of her sex, that discrimination flies in the face of morality.

Reminds me of that other thread where I asked what was wrong with a woman serving in the army if she passed every requirement, and someone on your side (Assassin, I think) showed their true colors by saying "Having a penis is one of the requirements."

The Lord Ruler · August 17, 2016, 02:23:44 PM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 01:28:12 PM

If another Hitler arises and starts taking over countries in Europe, we would have a moral responsibility to get involved.

haha no we wouldnt

Elai · August 17, 2016, 03:08:23 PM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 01:28:12 PM

If a man is legally allowed to do something under the law, and then a woman is prohibited from doing that very same thing because of her sex.

i don't think people want woman barred from infantry simply because they're women, but because men act differently around women.

women act differently around men too, that's just how it is.

Elai · August 17, 2016, 03:08:40 PM

side thought: i wonder if all-female units could be a thing. given that you'd have to be an extraordinary woman to meet the male standards of acceptance, an all-female unit would probably be pretty good at their jobs.

SecondClass · August 17, 2016, 03:10:29 PM

Quote from: Eli on August 17, 2016, 03:08:23 PM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 01:28:12 PM
If a man is legally allowed to do something under the law, and then a woman is prohibited from doing that very same thing because of her sex.

i don't think people want woman barred from infantry simply because they're women, but because men act differently around women.

And they shouldn't in a combat situation. Like I said in that other (exhausting) thread, if a soldier is going to put the mission at stake because of a single life, just because that life is a woman's, they're a bad soldier.

Elai · August 17, 2016, 03:18:12 PM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 03:10:29 PM

Quote from: Eli on August 17, 2016, 03:08:23 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 01:28:12 PM
If a man is legally allowed to do something under the law, and then a woman is prohibited from doing that very same thing because of her sex.

i don't think people want woman barred from infantry simply because they're women, but because men act differently around women.
And they shouldn't in a combat situation. Like I said in that other (exhausting) thread, if a soldier is going to put the mission at stake because of a single life, just because that life is a woman's, they're a bad soldier.

i mean

we can argue the shoulds and shouldn't of the universe til we're blue in the face

but it still doesn't change the reality of the situation that men and women act differently around each other, consciously and unconsciously.

SecondClass · August 17, 2016, 03:20:10 PM

Quote from: Eli on August 17, 2016, 03:18:12 PM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: Eli on August 17, 2016, 03:08:23 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 01:28:12 PM
If a man is legally allowed to do something under the law, and then a woman is prohibited from doing that very same thing because of her sex.

i don't think people want woman barred from infantry simply because they're women, but because men act differently around women.
And they shouldn't in a combat situation. Like I said in that other (exhausting) thread, if a soldier is going to put the mission at stake because of a single life, just because that life is a woman's, they're a bad soldier.

i mean

we can argue the shoulds and shouldn't of the universe til we're blue in the face

but it still doesn't change the reality of the situation that men and women act differently around each other, consciously and unconsciously.

So your logic is that because men and women are unconsciously prejudiced against each other, we should use that as the basis for discrimination?

Your idea of all-female units is a good one, though, and that's probably the best of both worlds. There's nothing inherently wrong with segregation like there is with discrimination.

Elai · August 17, 2016, 03:20:44 PM

actually you know what nevermind

if so few women can actually qualify then this is a non-issue

the affects of a coed unit would be minimal if the capable women are so few and far between

Elai · August 17, 2016, 03:23:08 PM

Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 03:20:10 PM

So your logic is that because men and women are unconsciously prejudiced against each other, we should use that as the basis for discrimination?

only in cases where the benefits of the discrimination (significantly) outweigh the drawbacks

which, if i'm understanding this whole situation correctly, isn't the case

if so few women are capable of passing the standards for infantry then there's nothing to worry about

SecondClass · August 17, 2016, 03:27:25 PM

Quote from: Eli on August 17, 2016, 03:23:08 PM

only in cases where the benefits of the discrimination (significantly) outweigh the drawbacks

I obviously disagree with this a lot, but you're right in the sense that it's a borderline non-issue because the amount of qualifying women would be so low. It could be a win-win if women would be allowed to serve on the front lines if they meet all the requirements that a man has to.

Super Irish · August 17, 2016, 04:13:27 PM

Quote from: Eli on August 17, 2016, 12:04:32 PM

Quote from: PsygnIrish on August 17, 2016, 11:54:30 AM
I don't see why you keep repeating this, I haven't stated anything but the facts.

None have qualified regardless of my or your opinion on the matter, so it's business of usual.

chill out man.

what "facts" are you referring to? that no woman has qualified? he acknowledges that.

Oh I'm chilled out, though somewhere my text ain't reflecting that.

challengerX · August 17, 2016, 07:01:27 PM

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challengerX · August 17, 2016, 07:03:25 PM

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The Lord Ruler · August 17, 2016, 07:45:34 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 17, 2016, 07:01:27 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsChris on August 17, 2016, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: Joyce Byers on August 17, 2016, 01:28:12 PM
If another Hitler arises and starts taking over countries in Europe, we would have a moral responsibility to get involved.

haha no we wouldnt
We have a moral responsibility to come to the aid of another Hitler.

we wont make the same mistake again

challengerX · August 18, 2016, 09:38:24 AM

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MyNameIsCharlie · August 18, 2016, 10:13:51 AM

What's the dropout rate? Seems hardly fair to deny 50% of our population the right to try based on a sample of one.

MyNameIsCharlie · August 18, 2016, 10:36:02 AM

Just read up on the details. The school has a 25% failure rate. One woman did complete the course, but didn't score high enough to continue on. One of the biggest factors playing in is that they, regardless of if they pass or not, will not be Infantry Officers. Basically this is running a marathon knowing that even if you win, you won't get the gold.

The course they ran sounds grueling. My thoughts are to leave the standards in place, but if a woman wins through, let her actually be an Infantry Officer.