Police Scotland introduce Hijabs into the official uniform

Verbatim · August 25, 2016, 05:38:42 AM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 05:03:03 AM

Quote from: Luciana on August 24, 2016, 09:45:13 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on August 24, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
telling people what they can't (or "shouldn't," which is code for "can't") wear is just as oppressive as any mandate
Also this
Uh, no, not this.

If it was part of a culture to make women wear a spike that goes into their vagina, would you respect that too?

Get a grip, guys.

you're the one who needs to get a grip, because if you actually look at what i fucking said, i literally never said anything that would remotely suggest that i would be okay with that, ever

in fact, i literally said that forcing women to wear hajibs are oppressive in that post, and the fact that you glazed over that is fucking hilarious--it's just that turning around and saying they can't wear them either is--wow why am i even repeating myself IT'S RIGHT FUCKING THERE, READ IT

so i'm the one that needs to get a grip when you're the one who physically quivers SO hard at the thought of someone disagreeing with you about islam, that your eyeballs start violently shaking inside of your skull, making it difficult for you to read posts that are otherwise perfectly coherent--i have to get a grip

Verbatim · August 25, 2016, 05:45:25 AM

you know what, i change my mind

hajibs aren't oppressive at all, and EVERYONE (even men) should be forced to wear them

also muslims should rape and kill everyone

challengerX · August 25, 2016, 06:48:44 AM

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challengerX · August 25, 2016, 06:49:22 AM

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gats · August 25, 2016, 07:18:09 AM

Scotland does this meanwhile french police are stripping clothes off women

Verbatim · August 25, 2016, 07:32:00 AM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 06:48:44 AM

I understood your post just fine

Wrong again.

challengerX · August 25, 2016, 08:03:48 AM

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Azumarill · August 25, 2016, 08:45:18 AM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 08:03:48 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 25, 2016, 07:32:00 AM
Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 06:48:44 AM
I understood your post just fine
Wrong again.
TOUGH TALKIN ASS NIGGA RUNNIN AROUND LIKE YOU A GYRADOS BUT REALLY YOU A MAGIKARP MY NIGGA YOU SOFT

magikarp actually has a very tough hide

DAS B00T x2 · August 25, 2016, 09:59:26 AM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 05:01:40 AM

Quote from: Luciana on August 24, 2016, 09:44:57 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 24, 2016, 08:24:52 PM
Telling somebody they have wear a blanket over their whole body since they're an infant isn't brainwashing?

They think it isn't oppressive cause that's what they're told. Successfully oppressed people don't know they're even being oppressed.
Uhh... I meant just the head scarf, bro. Unless you HAVE to wear the other cloth covering with it.
The head scarf is just as oppressive.

It's clothing invented to punish women for even existing. The fact that the only argument you guys have is "well some Muslim women I've met like to wear it so haha". Yeah, because they're fucking brainwashed since infancy.

It's kinda sad, but like, I've got no problems with it so long as society doesn't stone them for one day not wearing it.
Like, I see traditionally dressed Mennonites very often and I don't run around screaming how they're being oppressed by the evils of a bonnet.

Ender · August 25, 2016, 10:50:50 AM

Quote from: Jebediah Townhouse on August 25, 2016, 04:25:01 AM

Quote from: Doop on August 24, 2016, 11:59:48 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 24, 2016, 03:56:29 PM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on August 24, 2016, 03:46:52 PM
Don't get why this is an issue
Because the hijab is oppressive and should be discouraged at the least in western society.

What if somebody wants to wear it though?
I don't know for the head scarf but I think it's safe to say that the majority of the women who look like Jawa's wouldn't be wearing that shit if they had the option not to from birth.

All the Muslim girls I know didn't start wearing them until they were highschool age so idk about that birth part

Nascent Email · August 25, 2016, 11:44:08 AM

Quote from: BayesianTurkey on August 24, 2016, 03:55:16 PM

Quote from: Mordo on August 24, 2016, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Incan on August 24, 2016, 02:47:26 PM
Don't see the issue with this really, if I remember right unemployment for Muslim women was a tad bit higher than the average, and if it means more people join up I'm all for it.
We have an official uniform for a reason.

And now it's been amended. Historically, allowing European immigrants into the police force is largely what allowed them to integrate into American society in the early 90s; this should be seen as a good thing by anyone that recognizes the growing trend of radicalization in the country.

You are a spaka. What letting Arabs, Berbers and Asians into police forces does is allow them to raid more charities digging up their satanic rape gangs.

Luciana · August 25, 2016, 12:16:43 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 05:01:40 AM

The head scarf is just as oppressive.

It's clothing invented to punish women for even existing. The fact that the only argument you guys have is "well some Muslim women I've met like to wear it so haha". Yeah, because they're fucking brainwashed since infancy.

It's silly logic that you think they only wear it because it was taught from birth. I was taught from birth that god is real and I should go to church and be a good Christian. I'm an adult now and my views gave completely changed despite still being somewhat surrounded by that.

A muslim women born in America might be taught you can wear that, or may even be required in some cases, but she can still form her own opinions in life and grow up to change it, or realize it's not always a requirement. You make it sound so black and white, when in fact it's not. Maybe in the theocratic states in the Mid East it is, but not here or any western nation. People aren't robots that are programmed to do the same thing over and over just because it was instilled into them at birth. In fact, many people rebel when they hit teenage years to what their parents taught them BECAUSE they want to be independent and form their own opinions on things.

And I find it very odd that you're saying we should force them not to wear it, and thinking that is okay simply because they're not oppressed anymore (when in fact they are if you demand they don't wear it). You're quite literally on the exact opposite end of the spectrum and showing the horseshoe theory is in play.

challengerX · August 25, 2016, 12:28:50 PM

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More Than Mortal · August 25, 2016, 01:18:58 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 24, 2016, 07:44:35 PM

telling people what they can't (or "shouldn't," which is code for "can't") wear is just as oppressive as any mandate

. . .

Not when it comes to a police force.

Luciana · August 25, 2016, 01:32:36 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 12:28:50 PM

Why do they wear it, then?

Because it ties into their culture? I said that before.

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lmao

That's not the same thing. Not even the most hardcore bible thumping family in America is close to the fanaticism of a Muslim family.

I was only using an example. You don't have to be a fanatical Muslim to wear them.

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"some slightly more liberal Muslim families in the US don't do this so you're wrong haha take that bigot"

I never said that. Let's not go down the route where we shove words in the others mouths, it's obnoxious.

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It is black and white. There is no choice given to the female. She's forced to wear it or she'll be jailed and stoned. In Europe laws don't allow that, but they still enforce it for the most part within their communities. Same thing in America, albeit to a lesser extent because people actually have to assimilate.

Do you have any proof at all that actually shows they still force it within their communities and the only reason they keep them from doing so is because of European laws, or because American culture? Because you still see it in America and Europe. Hell an American Olympic female athlete did it just this last cycle.

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This is very basic logic a lot of bleeding heart liberals just can't seem to grasp because they (you) believe it's too closely associated with "fascism".

Why is it that whenever a debate happens here, people instantly cast down what you say with a "lol libbie" insult? I'm not calling you an alt righter, and I'm sure as hell not as liberal as you might be thinking. So let's not dish out something name calling as common as "religion of peace" around here every time someone may disagree with you on something ideologically or morally.

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Your culture/religion/society forces you to wear an article of clothing to cover your body. That's wrong because there's no need to cover the head/face or entire body.

The religion of Islam doesn't actually tell them to wear it. It just says dress moderately last I checked. Them covering their entire bodies is more cultural than it is religious. Theocratic states are wrong, especially Middle Eastern ones. However I don't think simply wearing something to cover your hair is at all that wrong. It's not really the same, but let me ask you a question since it got me thinking and I want your opinion on it. Is it oppressive to women that a Nun dresses the way she does?

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As a moral society it's our duty to ban oppressive practices like that.

It depends on what you mean by "moral society", because the west has a lot of things that aren't really moral. Human rights wise? I guess you could say we are, but if someone wants to wear something, and has the option to but also has the option not to, then you shouldn't force it upon then. Just because you think it's morally on the right side at the end of the day, the way you're going about it is still just as bad as those forcing them to wear it. The ends justifying the means and all that.

True Turquoise · August 25, 2016, 01:56:12 PM

cuck xdd

challengerX · August 25, 2016, 03:31:29 PM

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Verbatim · August 25, 2016, 03:43:25 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on August 25, 2016, 01:18:58 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 24, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
telling people what they can't (or "shouldn't," which is code for "can't") wear is just as oppressive as any mandate
. . .

Not when it comes to a police force.

yes, when it comes to anyone ever

Verbatim · August 25, 2016, 03:45:10 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 03:31:29 PM

I don't "think" it's morally right to ban the hijab. I know it is. Just like it's morally correct to ban animal and child abuse.

you're actually braindead if you think child abuse is the same thing as wearing a fucking veil because you want to

More Than Mortal · August 25, 2016, 03:47:33 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 25, 2016, 03:43:25 PM

yes, when it comes to anyone ever

So it's oppressive to tell soldiers in the field that they can't wear pink clown wigs?

Luciana · August 25, 2016, 03:48:58 PM

Okay, well I'll reply to a few of those, otherwise we're gonna go in countless circles here.

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You are that liberal though.

You seem like an alt righter then.

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You've never been exposed to what Islam really is apart from watching the news for 5 minutes when there's a terrorist attack. That, to you, is the extent of the harm Islam can cause.

Way to assume. Uhh... alright, if you're so enlightened, what have you been exposed to then? I'm not even trying to be condescending. What have you experienced that makes your opinion more valuable than mine?

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You don't see how it drags down entire countries and keeps them living like chimpanzees in mud huts.

The Middle East is in the state it is in right now because of more than just Islam. Far more than just that. Things decades in the making. It all didn't happen because of just one reason, and you can't fix that entire region with just one solution. It's something that will take decades to fix.

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Oh wow I never fucking saw this coming.

Yes it is.

Arguing aside, it seems women are oppressed a lot in Roman Catholicism. I forget her name, but they took a saint who did a bunch of good things, and slandered her as a whore because they don't like women in power. Hell, I don't think even women are allowed in the upper branches in that religion. So basically, I dislike Catholicism as much as I do Islam. One hasn't gone through a renaissance it needs to, and the other is still stuck in a lot of old ways and holds way too many secrets.

Verbatim · August 25, 2016, 03:52:49 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on August 25, 2016, 03:47:33 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 25, 2016, 03:43:25 PM
yes, when it comes to anyone ever
So it's oppressive to tell soldiers in the field that they can't wear pink clown wigs?

basically, yeah

oppression is sort of the military's thing--almost by necessity

DAS B00T x2 · August 25, 2016, 04:05:46 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on August 25, 2016, 03:47:33 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 25, 2016, 03:43:25 PM
yes, when it comes to anyone ever
So it's oppressive to tell soldiers in the field that they can't wear pink clown wigs?

If clown wigs are part of their (approved amd recognized) religion, yes, and subdued wigs will be prescribed for wear in uniform...

Just as we accommodate the few Sikhs who serve.

challengerX · August 25, 2016, 04:23:21 PM

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Verbatim · August 25, 2016, 04:26:52 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 04:23:21 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 25, 2016, 03:45:10 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 25, 2016, 03:31:29 PM
I don't "think" it's morally right to ban the hijab. I know it is. Just like it's morally correct to ban animal and child abuse.
you're actually braindead if you think child abuse is the same thing as wearing a fucking veil because you want to
It's not child abuse to force a child to wear a blanket covering every inch of her body in the heat?

you've lost your grip again

get a grip and then read the following sentence (only when you've gotten your grip though)

if an adult muslim woman says "i think i'd like to wear this veil today," she has the right to do that

no one's talking about forcing anyone into anything

challengerX · August 25, 2016, 04:29:34 PM

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Luciana · August 25, 2016, 04:35:46 PM

The more progressive countries in the Middle East also happen to be the ones that aren't riddled with wars left and right, along with sectarian violence reaching a boiling point.

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Their real opinions, how a Muslim country and military functions, their culture, their society.

Not the Americanized Islam.

They're* :^)

Anyway, I was using American Islam as the examples when I was providing them, because they're Muslim people in a secular country. Look at Turkey. They were perfectly fine being Muslim and sectarian before Erdoğan came in and messed things up and is promoting a dictatorship and a less secular government. Just 5 years ago Turkey was seen as what ME countries should aspire to be.

Theocracy running any nation, regardless of religion, is shit.

Now I think one of the few ME countries that isn't entirely ass backwards is Jordan. Maybe Dubai if you don't wanna count their human rights stuff.

challengerX · August 25, 2016, 04:36:28 PM

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challengerX · August 25, 2016, 04:44:38 PM

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Luciana · August 25, 2016, 06:11:34 PM

Jordan isn't that bad, duder. And sorry, a lot of western nations have some shady human rights things going on too. It's not just with Islam. Hello Russia, US, etc.

And Turkey is indeed a ME country. What makes it not one? Pretty sure the Ottomans were as Islamic as you could get.

And Islamic theocracies are worse because theocratic governments in the west have been gone a long long time. But when they were around? Yeah, still pretty bad.