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Operation to liberate Mosul begins

 
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Over 100k fighters have mobilised for this, should be a great spectacle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37674693

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An offensive to retake the city, Iraq's second largest, has been planned for months.
Mosul has been under IS control since June 2014.
The UN has warned that the humanitarian impact could be "enormous", and possibly affect up to 1.2 million people living in and around the city.
The assault from Kurdish Peshmerga and Iraqi government forces is backed by the US-led coalition fighting IS in Iraq.
Mosul is the group's last major stronghold in Iraq. The loss of the city, officials say, would mark the effective defeat of IS in the country.


Lights over the city today



Last Edit: October 16, 2016, 06:51:40 PM by gats

 
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That really is the calm before the storm, huh?

 
 
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I bet it is going to be an Iraqi Army operation, they better make sure to keep the Kurds and the Shia militia out or else this could get alot more ugly.

 
 
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Quote from: challengerX on October 17, 2016, 03:40:21 PM
Quote from: Risay117 on October 17, 2016, 03:31:25 PM
I bet it is going to be an Iraqi Army operation, they better make sure to keep the Kurds and the Shia militia out or else this could get alot more ugly.
>thinking any of these people are relevant

This is an American operation.
The Americans may be calling the shots in some cases but this is mostly and Iraqi army operation, hell the Iraqi forces have gone against the advice of the Americans before. Also the question will come down how fast will it fall, cause the longer it takes the quicker Aleppo falls. And the Americans will do anything they can to close the border and halt the flow of Shia Militia to Syria. Mosul is a big part of that plan.

Also they really need Iraq to look strong and independent to at least show some form of opposition even if friendly against the Iranian. They do not want another puppet in the region for Iran to play with. Thats why Iraq needs to call the shots and needs to show the strength of its army. Funny thing is they also need to make their former enemies like Sadr strong and vocal, to actually stand up to the Iranians. Even if they are friendly. Make these people patriotically Iraqi. In essence tear down these sectarian divides and force Iraqi patriotism in the population. This way even their most vocal enemies like Sadr will not look too kindly on the Iranians ordering or trying to force their will on Iraq.

 
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Quote from: challengerX on October 17, 2016, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: Risay117 on October 17, 2016, 03:54:01 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 17, 2016, 03:40:21 PM
Quote from: Risay117 on October 17, 2016, 03:31:25 PM
I bet it is going to be an Iraqi Army operation, they better make sure to keep the Kurds and the Shia militia out or else this could get alot more ugly.
>thinking any of these people are relevant

This is an American operation.
The Americans may be calling the shots in some cases but this is mostly and Iraqi army operation, hell the Iraqi forces have gone against the advice of the Americans before. Also the question will come down how fast will it fall, cause the longer it takes the quicker Aleppo falls. And the Americans will do anything they can to close the border and halt the flow of Shia Militia to Syria. Mosul is a big part of that plan.

Also they really need Iraq to look strong and independent to at least show some form of opposition even if friendly against the Iranian. They do not want another puppet in the region for Iran to play with. Thats why Iraq needs to call the shots and needs to show the strength of its army. Funny thing is they also need to make their former enemies like Sadr strong and vocal, to actually stand up to the Iranians. Even if they are friendly. Make these people patriotically Iraqi. In essence tear down these sectarian divides and force Iraqi patriotism in the population. This way even their most vocal enemies like Sadr will not look too kindly on the Iranians ordering or trying to force their will on Iraq.
Yeah whatever dude none of that matters.

American special forces are the ones doing all the heavy lifting with the Iraqi army coming in and claiming victory afterwards. That is, what's left of the Iraqi army that didn't surrender and join ISIS.
Not sure if joking or not. Special forces are no W40K knights that can slaughter through huge number of enemies. And there is a really small contingent of American special forces. The air forces yeah they are doing alot of the heavy lifting removing alot of the surprises, but the ground work will mostly be Iraqi troops who you will see die in huge number from IED and SVBIED as well as traps.

Also if you like dissing Iraqi army, why not read up on the Golden division that were siege for a couple years protecting a town and a bunch of oil refineries from ISIS troops. The collapse in the West in the early part of the war was more due to low moral and huge amount of mismanagement of troops that everyone knew of. These two years of heavy lifting and slow build up of the army, with the Golden Division as the banner boys and lead fighters, has actually made them into a formidable force.

Though you might want to know, the Iraqi army is the US weapon in Iraq, while the militia are a tool of the Iran. Their success on the battlefield and on site operation is a success for the US. Therefore having the US do the heavy lifting goes against the whole geopolitical play the US is going after here. Funny thing is after this war if the US and the Iraqi army show alot of cooperation, we could see the creation of a new relationship between the the nations, one of an alliance that could threaten Iran's sphere of influence.

 
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That's a very hopeful future you just painted. One I hope comes true. Iraq has been through so much shit, they deserve some stability and actually being a nation again.

 
 
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Quote from: challengerX on October 17, 2016, 08:45:20 PM
I don't care about a certain division of soldiers that didn't surrender. The fact is Arab soldiers are lazy, undisciplined, disorganized, unprofessional, cowardly, corrupt, stupid,
Idk, Turkey's military ain't bad. I just hate the government.

 
 
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http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/10/17/battle-for-mosul-paton-walsh-pkg.cnn

Very interesting video. Reporters under fire, some action caught on camera. These guys are gonna be doing some tough fighting. God speed to them.

 
 
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You do understand that the biggest reason the war against ISIS so far has been successful is because the US didnt just send soldiers to rolfstomp into Mosul? Obama's whole strategy has been training and empowering locals so that the US doesn't need to be there forever, you can make blanket statements all you want but US special forces are not doing all the heavy lifting. Search up all the photos of them they're always helping out Kurds in Syria or Iraq never the federal Iraqi government.

 
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Quote from: challengerX on October 18, 2016, 04:20:19 AM
They sent special forces.
Special forces come in small numbers and cannot spearhead full frontal assaults on cities.

Quote
I'm aware that one of the main objectives is to train locals.

But if you honestly think that Kurds and Iraqis have been making these huge advancements in clearing out ISIS, I don't know what to tell you. It's just like in Libya where JTF2  and others were clearing the way for rebels.

Kurds haven't made any gains in the past year they have just held a frontline and unlike the Iraqis Western special forces are heavily embedded within them as shown by the number of special forces killed during operations with the Peshmerga. Say what you will about Arab armies I don't disagree that the Iraqi Army is corrupt, weak and incompetent but the Golden Division, ISOF whatever they're called is a pretty decent offensive military unit. They trained along US special forces in Jordan throughout 2004 until 2014, only recently moving the training base to Iraq. They are capable. Also in regard to Arab Armies isn't that what ISIS is? They got a large number of foreign fighters sure but they wouldn't have last this long if they weren't also local Syrians/Iraqis and they're not superhuman just zealots motivated thoroughly by religion.  Their strongest Chechen and other Central Asian units have been depleted hence the lack of an offensive capability post 2015.

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Do you expect to find pictures of them during an operation? I don't get it.

Actually yes there's a shit ton of pictures of special forces with the Peshmerga.

Spoiler








And these are just pics from the recent Mosul offensive.

 
 
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Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 10:29:12 AM by challengerX

 
 
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Quote from: challengerX on October 18, 2016, 10:27:47 AM
Special forces come in small numbers and cannot spearhead full frontal assaults on cities.You realize special forces are sent in behind enemy lines, right? Often posing as the enemy. I'm talking above and beyond the special forces that we know about. This isn't the 1800's, they're not going to march into Mosul.

If special forces won't march into Mosul how do they dislodge anywhere between 4-10k ISIS fighters?

Quote
Like I said some decent soldiers isn't cutting it.

And ISIS isn't an army, they're terrorists. They don't really have the structure a real military has. Not that it suits Arabs either way.
All jihadi analysts/experts would disagree ISIS is an army they have officers, commanders, governors, emirs, units, battalions etc. Operating like a state with an Army is what made them different to all the other Jihadi groups it's why Al Qaeda kicked them out of the jihadi coalition and declared war. It's why foreigners ran to IS instead of others since they actually tried emulating a caliphate, they governed areas they took control of by giving jihadi's jobs, providing welfare, food rations, funding infrastructure, they even nearly started distributing currency, all they needed next was UN recognition.


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I don't get what you're trying to say here.

I never said they're not helping Kurds. I said they're there training Iraqi soldiers too. But my point is Americans are the ones doing the real work.
I disagree with that on the premise of what I said before, special forces alone cannot do all the fighting they can capture leaders, embed with units and call airstrikes but they cannot take part in heavy street to street fighting in a city of over 2 million.
Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 03:12:45 PM by gats

 
 
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Quote from: challengerX on October 18, 2016, 03:37:35 PM
Of course they're not going to do all the fighting, I never said that. My point is they're going to be doing the serious work.
I'm curious, what is the serious work? I figured actually taking the towns was the serious stuff.

 
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If hundreds dying and getting wounded in urban fighting isn't the serious work I don't know what is. Going into the city looks to be a meat grinder.

 
 
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Quote from: challengerX on October 18, 2016, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: Luciana on October 18, 2016, 03:41:27 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 18, 2016, 03:37:35 PM
Of course they're not going to do all the fighting, I never said that. My point is they're going to be doing the serious work.
I'm curious, what is the serious work? I figured actually taking the towns was the serious stuff.
Fulcrum disposal
I'm not sure I understand what that means. Could you explain?
Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 07:20:01 PM by Luciana

 
 
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>how to liberate Mosul

kill all the muslims

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