Quote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 03:56:38 PMDon't pretend all this fat shaming has anything whatsoever to do with helping people.That's literally it, at least from me. I was picked on when I was young for being so thin and lanky, now I work out and do my best to better myself, get bigger and stronger. Self-hate gave me a reason to improve, and it transformed from removing a flaw into improving and empowering what I have.
Don't pretend all this fat shaming has anything whatsoever to do with helping people.
So 68% of Americans all have mental health problems that cause them to overeat?
Quote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 05:06:09 PM]That's you. Believe it or not, people are different. Some respond better to negative reinforcement, for some that just makes it worse. Don't come in here and pretend your experience is some universal truth.I don't, but it should be pretty obvious by now that telling the obese that everything is okay does nothing but damage to them and to society in general.Shaming and ostracization absolutely have an evolutionary role. Fat acceptance is functionally similar to acceptance of pedophilia. It is an attempt to normalize socially destructive behaviors in order to avoid making people feel bad, regardless of whether these people actually are bad in some way.
]That's you. Believe it or not, people are different. Some respond better to negative reinforcement, for some that just makes it worse. Don't come in here and pretend your experience is some universal truth.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 05:25:32 PMNeither are bad at all, though, in a moral sense. In a health sense, being fat is "bad", but no one has the obligation to br healthy.Do you believe in state-funded healthcare? As in, funded through taxation rather than profit?QuoteIf you're going to ostracize someone because you don't like how their body looks, then whatever. You have the right to do that. But don't take this high ground and pretend it's the big secret to ending obesity.It's not a matter of me not liking how their bodies look. I think piercings anywhere but the ear lobe are disgusting, I feel sick just looking at them, but I don't recognize them as a real problem. Obesity is absolutely a problem. It is not ostracization over some kind of arbitrary personal taste, it is ostracization over a personally and socially destructive lifestyle.In an increasingly nationalized and networked world, the problems of the obese are made to be our problem. If in ten years the cost for a fat man to get his medical procedures costs me tax dollars, it is perfectly reasonable to recognize his obesity as a strike against me.QuoteBut don't take this high ground and pretend it's the big secret to ending obesity.I don't think it is the answer, but it is certainly better than the alternative, saying and doing nothing negative for fear of hurting someone's fee-fees.
Neither are bad at all, though, in a moral sense. In a health sense, being fat is "bad", but no one has the obligation to br healthy.
If you're going to ostracize someone because you don't like how their body looks, then whatever. You have the right to do that. But don't take this high ground and pretend it's the big secret to ending obesity.
But don't take this high ground and pretend it's the big secret to ending obesity.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 05:40:02 PMYour argument comes down to the socialized healthcare point, which is admittedly rooted in logic. In general, that's not one of my important issues. Acts of god and accidents should be paid for by the state through taxes, but I don't think addicts, obese people, self-mutilators, etc, should get the same free service for problems stemming from their self inflicted choices.It is socially damaging even without public healthcare. The obese are limited in what work they can do, and limited in their capability and productivity in those fields. Usually they or their families help address medical costs, rather than spending that money consuming products and pumping it back into the economy at large. Thousands of dollars of medical equipment are diverted to treat the obese, when many of those devices could be used elsewhere to treat the genuinely sick patients. In some settings, the extremely obese even require special accommodations in seating and transportation. Obesity statistics are also, on the international stage, a source of national shame.
Your argument comes down to the socialized healthcare point, which is admittedly rooted in logic. In general, that's not one of my important issues. Acts of god and accidents should be paid for by the state through taxes, but I don't think addicts, obese people, self-mutilators, etc, should get the same free service for problems stemming from their self inflicted choices.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:00:07 PMcosts so much for the patient out of pocket.which is a problem. That is money that could be paying for literally anything but a plus sized hospital bed and artery clearings.
costs so much for the patient out of pocket.
Quote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 12, 2016, 06:06:17 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:00:07 PMcosts so much for the patient out of pocket.which is a problem. That is money that could be paying for literally anything but a plus sized hospital bed and artery clearings.That's your opinion. To the obese man, that outcome may be justified by the happiness the lifestyle brings him. And it's his money, not yours. He earned it, and so he gets to spend it how he wants. It's really as simple as that.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:16:28 PMQuote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 12, 2016, 06:06:17 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:00:07 PMcosts so much for the patient out of pocket.which is a problem. That is money that could be paying for literally anything but a plus sized hospital bed and artery clearings.That's your opinion. To the obese man, that outcome may be justified by the happiness the lifestyle brings him. And it's his money, not yours. He earned it, and so he gets to spend it how he wants. It's really as simple as that.Why are you okay with people basically killing themselves. Thats bad and shouldnt be praised.
Quote from: Batch on April 12, 2016, 11:14:46 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:16:28 PMQuote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 12, 2016, 06:06:17 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:00:07 PMcosts so much for the patient out of pocket.which is a problem. That is money that could be paying for literally anything but a plus sized hospital bed and artery clearings.That's your opinion. To the obese man, that outcome may be justified by the happiness the lifestyle brings him. And it's his money, not yours. He earned it, and so he gets to spend it how he wants. It's really as simple as that.Why are you okay with people basically killing themselves. Thats bad and shouldnt be praised.I'm okay with people literally killing themselves, too. What someone does to their own body is only their concern.Why are you okay with sticking your nose where it doesn't belong?
Quote from: SecondClass on April 13, 2016, 12:30:39 AMQuote from: Batch on April 12, 2016, 11:14:46 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:16:28 PMQuote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 12, 2016, 06:06:17 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:00:07 PMcosts so much for the patient out of pocket.which is a problem. That is money that could be paying for literally anything but a plus sized hospital bed and artery clearings.That's your opinion. To the obese man, that outcome may be justified by the happiness the lifestyle brings him. And it's his money, not yours. He earned it, and so he gets to spend it how he wants. It's really as simple as that.Why are you okay with people basically killing themselves. Thats bad and shouldnt be praised.I'm okay with people literally killing themselves, too. What someone does to their own body is only their concern.Why are you okay with sticking your nose where it doesn't belong?Because it sets an example, and its a bad example to follow. How do you expect a nation to become healthier and stronger if they dont try. A kid will see it's parents shoving their faces full of shit and do the same, and we support this?
Quote from: Batch on April 13, 2016, 03:11:08 AMQuote from: SecondClass on April 13, 2016, 12:30:39 AMQuote from: Batch on April 12, 2016, 11:14:46 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:16:28 PMQuote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 12, 2016, 06:06:17 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:00:07 PMcosts so much for the patient out of pocket.which is a problem. That is money that could be paying for literally anything but a plus sized hospital bed and artery clearings.That's your opinion. To the obese man, that outcome may be justified by the happiness the lifestyle brings him. And it's his money, not yours. He earned it, and so he gets to spend it how he wants. It's really as simple as that.Why are you okay with people basically killing themselves. Thats bad and shouldnt be praised.I'm okay with people literally killing themselves, too. What someone does to their own body is only their concern.Why are you okay with sticking your nose where it doesn't belong?Because it sets an example, and its a bad example to follow. How do you expect a nation to become healthier and stronger if they dont try. A kid will see it's parents shoving their faces full of shit and do the same, and we support this?So you think it's better to mandate what people can and can't eat than to set a bad example?Holy shit. Why are people always so goddamn eager to toss away their rights?I think fat people are gross, but I keep that to myself. I think fat people should exercise and diet, but I don't run around spurting out some directive for anyone over a certain BMI.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 13, 2016, 03:15:14 AMQuote from: Batch on April 13, 2016, 03:11:08 AMQuote from: SecondClass on April 13, 2016, 12:30:39 AMQuote from: Batch on April 12, 2016, 11:14:46 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:16:28 PMQuote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 12, 2016, 06:06:17 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 12, 2016, 06:00:07 PMcosts so much for the patient out of pocket.which is a problem. That is money that could be paying for literally anything but a plus sized hospital bed and artery clearings.That's your opinion. To the obese man, that outcome may be justified by the happiness the lifestyle brings him. And it's his money, not yours. He earned it, and so he gets to spend it how he wants. It's really as simple as that.Why are you okay with people basically killing themselves. Thats bad and shouldnt be praised.I'm okay with people literally killing themselves, too. What someone does to their own body is only their concern.Why are you okay with sticking your nose where it doesn't belong?Because it sets an example, and its a bad example to follow. How do you expect a nation to become healthier and stronger if they dont try. A kid will see it's parents shoving their faces full of shit and do the same, and we support this?So you think it's better to mandate what people can and can't eat than to set a bad example?Holy shit. Why are people always so goddamn eager to toss away their rights?I think fat people are gross, but I keep that to myself. I think fat people should exercise and diet, but I don't run around spurting out some directive for anyone over a certain BMI.Whoa whoa I never said I was gunna take anyones rights, Im just saying what theyre doing is wrong. Back in my youth if I could refuse to see that blubberball a Big Mac I would have, but that's not fair. What Im all about are people saying its okay to not worry about your weight, and a lot of compulsive eaters take this onboard to justify their lifestyle, while being blind that its killing them, with no regard on the effects it has.Im saying it's wrong, I'm not saying we should refuse to sell said fatty food to an obese person, that denies simple liberties, but god damn we should be able to tell them they shouldnt.
Quote from: Ian on April 12, 2016, 09:18:31 AMFood deserts?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
Food deserts?
Obesity and 'food deserts'
