Obama to take unilateral action on US gun violence

CyberGama · January 02, 2016, 04:37:29 PM

I don't understand why this whole gun issue is becoming a big problem. Taking guns away isn't going to solve anything, people can still kill even without guns.

Flee · January 02, 2016, 04:41:15 PM

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CyberGama · January 02, 2016, 04:42:33 PM

Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:41:15 PM

Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:37:29 PM
I don't understand why this whole gun issue is becoming a big problem. Taking guns away isn't going to solve anything, people can still kill even without guns.
Sure, but guns do make it significantly easier, no?

What easier to kill? Sure but lets be honest, would any criminal want to take the chance of giving up their gun? Also we have bows and other range weapons, its not just guns.

Flee · January 02, 2016, 04:46:49 PM

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Alternative Facts · January 02, 2016, 04:49:00 PM

This is a good thing.

CyberGama · January 02, 2016, 04:51:37 PM

Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:46:49 PM

Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:41:15 PM
Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:37:29 PM
I don't understand why this whole gun issue is becoming a big problem. Taking guns away isn't going to solve anything, people can still kill even without guns.
Sure, but guns do make it significantly easier, no?
What easier to kill? Sure but lets be honest, would any criminal want to take the chance of giving up their gun? Also we have bows and other range weapons, its not just guns.
That's why we confiscate illegal guns owned by criminals and make it harder for them to get firearms rather than expect them to just turn in their guns.

And the amount of deaths homicides involving other range weapons than guns is miniscule.

The only reason why he have deaths from firearms is because of peoples choices, do guns really kill people? its a tool, its like saying a knife kills people, its a tool, the only reason your killing people with a gun is not the guns fault, its peoples actions.

Flee · January 02, 2016, 04:59:47 PM

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DAS B00T x2 · January 02, 2016, 05:03:21 PM

Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:51:37 PM

Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:41:15 PM
Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:37:29 PM
I don't understand why this whole gun issue is becoming a big problem. Taking guns away isn't going to solve anything, people can still kill even without guns.
Sure, but guns do make it significantly easier, no?
What easier to kill? Sure but lets be honest, would any criminal want to take the chance of giving up their gun? Also we have bows and other range weapons, its not just guns.
That's why we confiscate illegal guns owned by criminals and make it harder for them to get firearms rather than expect them to just turn in their guns.

And the amount of deaths homicides involving other range weapons than guns is miniscule.

The only reason why he have deaths from firearms is because of peoples choices, do guns really kill people? its a tool, its like saying a knife kills people, its a tool, the only reason your killing people with a gun is not the guns fault, its peoples actions.

If the government restricts and regulates and individual's right to operate a motor vehicle based on predisposed illnesses that endanger others (and a car is a tool significantly more important than a firearm in daily life for 99% of people) then what's the difference here? Prior criminals do not have full rights under the law and have restrictions that they must oblige by. I have no problems with expanding the background check system.

Flee · January 02, 2016, 05:15:31 PM

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Luciana · January 02, 2016, 05:16:12 PM

Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:59:47 PM

Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:51:37 PM
Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 04:41:15 PM
Quote from: CyberGama on January 02, 2016, 04:37:29 PM
I don't understand why this whole gun issue is becoming a big problem. Taking guns away isn't going to solve anything, people can still kill even without guns.
Sure, but guns do make it significantly easier, no?
What easier to kill? Sure but lets be honest, would any criminal want to take the chance of giving up their gun? Also we have bows and other range weapons, its not just guns.
That's why we confiscate illegal guns owned by criminals and make it harder for them to get firearms rather than expect them to just turn in their guns.

And the amount of deaths homicides involving other range weapons than guns is miniscule.

The only reason why he have deaths from firearms is because of peoples choices, do guns really kill people? its a tool, its like saying a knife kills people, its a tool, the only reason your killing people with a gun is not the guns fault, its peoples actions.
I don't think anyone argues against that. What people do argue is that guns simply are one of the most lethal and most effective tools we have to commit crimes and kill people. Statistics support that this is the case. No one thinks that guns grow legs and shoot people on their own accord. They just think that it deserves to be regulated differently due to its inherently more lethal capacities.

That, and knives are used for other things besides just hurting people. Guns only existence is to kill another. This is no other use for it.

Unless it can somehow cut a sandwich in a cool way, then get back to me.

Luciana · January 02, 2016, 05:18:08 PM

Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 05:15:31 PM

It's even expected that for the first time in any country in recent history, there are going to be less traffic fatalities than deaths by guns in the US in 2016.

That's a shame. I don't know if it still holds up, but wasn't there more mass shootings than days in the US in 2015?

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · January 02, 2016, 05:35:38 PM

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DAS B00T x2 · January 02, 2016, 05:38:22 PM

Quote from: Luciana on January 02, 2016, 05:18:08 PM

Quote from: Flee on January 02, 2016, 05:15:31 PM
It's even expected that for the first time in any country in recent history, there are going to be less traffic fatalities than deaths by guns in the US in 2016.
That's a shame. I don't know if it still holds up, but wasn't there more mass shootings than days in the US in 2015?

Mass murder by firearm, to he technical, which simply means four people were killed by one person or allied persons with no more than 30 minutes between each kill.

Flee · January 02, 2016, 05:46:53 PM

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Luciana · January 02, 2016, 05:47:13 PM

I understand the definition

But you two say that as if it makes it any less of a problem and that we don't have a problem. Which it doesn't, and which we do.

Elai · January 02, 2016, 09:14:21 PM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on January 02, 2016, 03:46:22 PM

Making a garden spider out to be a recluse.

Is this even a saying? lol

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · January 02, 2016, 09:38:49 PM

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🍁 Aria 🔮 · January 02, 2016, 09:56:23 PM

Quote from: Eli on January 02, 2016, 09:14:21 PM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on January 02, 2016, 03:46:22 PM
Making a garden spider out to be a recluse.

Is this even a saying? lol

Nope, metaphor is just simpler to use.

Elai · January 02, 2016, 10:14:28 PM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on January 02, 2016, 09:56:23 PM

Nope, metaphor is just simpler to use.

I've heard the "Making a mountain out of a molehill" phrase before, and yours was just a modified version so I wasn't sure if you made it up or not.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · January 02, 2016, 10:18:06 PM

Quote from: Eli on January 02, 2016, 10:14:28 PM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on January 02, 2016, 09:56:23 PM
Nope, metaphor is just simpler to use.

I've heard the "Making a mountain out of a molehill" phrase before, and yours was just a modified version so I wasn't sure if you made it up or not.

The difference is that garden spiders are helpful, they eat crop-destroying pests. The metaphor is that they're making some good out to be something terrible.

Elai · January 02, 2016, 10:22:26 PM

Huh, alright. Makes sense.

Luciana · January 02, 2016, 10:30:21 PM

Quote from: † on January 02, 2016, 09:38:49 PM

Quote from: Luciana on January 02, 2016, 05:47:13 PM
I understand the definition

But you two say that as if it makes it any less of a problem and that we don't have a problem. Which it doesn't, and which we do.
It actually does make it less of a problem.

We don't have crazy neckbeards with ARs flipping out on a daily basis like the statistic at first seems to imply. Most of these "mass shootings" are urban gang violence and drive-bys.

Fair enough I guess? But that doesn't change the fact we more than expect a bunch of kids to get killed at schools now, or a mall to get shot up. 2, maybe 3 times a year.

That alone shows something needs to change. Universal backgrounds checks are a step in the right direction. If the US was a social experiment, it's shown that no regulation on guns = bad things to happen, especially when you go through more steps to get a drivers license.

That seat belt case brought up earlier was a great example.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · January 02, 2016, 11:07:34 PM

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Flee · January 03, 2016, 06:49:24 AM

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More Than Mortal · January 03, 2016, 08:26:38 AM

Quote from: Flee on January 03, 2016, 06:49:24 AM

While rates of mental illness are relatively high among mass shooters, research shows that only a tiny fraction (probably less than 5%) of all gun violence is commited by people with serious and demonstrable mental health problems.

As I understand it, "mental illness" statistics on any kind of crime don't include the mental illnesses that would make you most susceptible to committing crimes in the first place. Namely, anti-social personality disorder and maybe narcissistic personality disorder. Not that these conditions are particularly treatable, but if we're going to talk about mental illness and crime then missing out ASPD seems to be ignoring one of the biggest pieces of the puzzles.

Flee · January 03, 2016, 09:22:02 AM

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More Than Mortal · January 03, 2016, 10:32:17 AM

Quote from: Flee on January 03, 2016, 09:22:02 AM

Do you have a source to suggest that these studies don't include those illnesses in their analysis?

I find the disconnect to be indicative of the fact that they could be ignoring such illnesses; after all, among the global prison population, about 50pc of men have antisocial personality disorder:

Quote

Antisocial personality disorder is common in prison settings. Surveys of prisoners worldwide indicate a prevalence of antisocial personality disorder of 47% for men and 21% for women (Fazel & Danesh, 2002). In the UK prison population, the prevalence of people with antisocial personality disorder has been identified as 63% male remand prisoners, 49% male sentenced prisoners, and 31% female prisoners (Singleton et al., 1998).

I don't find it particularly surprising though; ASPD--and by extension psychopathy--isn't viewed as an illness which qualifies somebody as legally insane within the criminal justice system. I remember reading that judges are more likely to hand heavier sentences to people diagnosed with ASPD.

Flee · January 03, 2016, 11:00:23 AM

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More Than Mortal · January 03, 2016, 12:08:44 PM

Quote from: Flee on January 03, 2016, 11:00:23 AM

"the criteria for antisocial personality disorder as specified in DSM-IV have been criticised because of the focus on antisocial behaviour rather than on the underlying personality structure. This has led to the belief that antisocial personality disorder and its variants may be over-diagnosed in certain settings, such as prison..."

That's certainly a possibility, but considering the fact that we're talking about gun violence I wouldn't think it entirely implausible that such people are highly afflicted with ASPD. After all, we're talking about individuals harming other individuals with a lethal weapon.

Although, while the criteria do focus more on behavioural abnormalities, it also includes a lack of remorse as well as evidence of conduct disorder before age 15. If it is over-diagnosed, I doubt the margin of error is very large.

Ridiculous Tales · January 04, 2016, 12:31:25 PM

Lol the NRA and their Republicunt patsies will cry and rage.