Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:13:03 PM

Intelligent people such as Rand Paul who have actual university disagrees

You demonstrate intelligence through discourse and development, not qualifications. In the context of this discussion, Psy and I are both intelligent individuals.

You aren't helping your case, either, considering Rand Paul is a Doctor of Medicine, whereas I'll actually be studying Philosophy, Politics and Economics.

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:13:03 PM

"HUR MUH SUPERUR LIBTARD" opinions all you want, but they are not nor will they ever be fact.

If you say so.

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:13:03 PM

Intelligent people such as Rand Paul who have actual university disagrees disagree with Meta, you, and Psy so that must mean you all are wrong according to your logic

> university disagrees disagree

You do realize that having a university disagree does not equate to intelligence? Yes, it shows you passed four years of memorizing facts, but it hardly equates to one's actual intelligence.

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:13:03 PM

It's not broken. If it was actually enforced then there wouldn't be a damn fucking issue right now. Can you get that through your fucking skull that's thicker than all of Camnator's booty threads combined?

Most people agree that the system is broken, including Conservatives. It's not just a liberal issue, so kindly stop painting it as one?

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:13:03 PM

Liberal is an insult, seeing liberals are ruining this county

I laughed.

It actually does show intelligence
http://www.statisticbrain.com/iq-estimates-by-intended-college-major/

The issue is that it isn't enforced

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:23:51 PM

It actually does show intelligence
http://www.statisticbrain.com/iq-estimates-by-intended-college-major/

Fine. Let me play by your chart, humor you.

Rand Paul, Degree in Medicine: IQ of 111
Meta, Studying Politics and Economics: Average IQ of 120 or 128.

I'll take his opinion over Rand's any day, thank you. Of course, that would imply this chart is accurate in any such form, because as Meta said, Correlation =/= Equation.

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:23:51 PM

The issue is that it isn't enforced

Repeating it doesn't make it true.

But Paul has also studied economics and philosophy himself, making him in the same ballpark as Meta and Psy

You would have to hire people to build the wall. You would also have to hire people to maintain the wall, patrol, etc. So you're actually creating jobs with such a plan that won't be a temporary thing

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:35:45 PM

You would have to hire people to build the wall. You would also have to hire people to maintain the wall, patrol, etc. So you're actually creating jobs with such a plan that won't be a temporary thing

I'm happy to inform you that the broken window fallacy is one thing economists are pretty much unanimous on. You should definitely read and realise how you're assertion isn't correct.

Your plan wouldn't be as bad, though, if we hired immigrants to build the wall and allowed them to boost AD. Oh, but wait, that would imply that spending increase by anyone could increase nominal income. . . Could that be?!!!111??

Well they would have to be legal immigrants (who I have no problem with) because government can't hire illegals

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:33:48 PM

Yet here you are, repeating yourself

Kinder, we can keep going around in circles all night, but I actually have shit to do for the website and college. So, I'm going to leave you some links for you to read and hopefully educate yourself.

Or, you can just skim them and claim liberal bias. Whichever makes you feel better.

Click for Evidence

Let me share some - first, on the border's budget (On the increase) versus Number of people caught







Roughly, it's costing taxpayers 10,000 dollars for every capture of an illegal. 10,000 dollars for every single capture. That is a huge waste of money that could be saved with a reformed system.

Now, let's look at those who attempt to come here legally, by the system that you say is fine but only needs to be enforced.

Quote

Until the early 1990s, less than 3 percent of petitions for naturalization were denied annually. Since then, denials have become much more common.

It's become harder to get naturalized, peaking in the year 2000, as shown below.



This image shows the number of people getting green cards, and why:

Quote

The vast majority of people who obtain permanent residency — "green cards" — are relatives of U.S. citizens. Since at most 7 percent of green cards can legally come from a single country, it's difficult for skilled professionals with no ties to the U.S. to get permanent residency

This makes it difficult for people to legally immigrate here if they do not have family here already. Hence, people resort to illegally coming because they have little option.

As a result, the nation is having trouble getting high skilled workers into the U.S. The L-1B visa allows companies to bring people with "specialized knowledge" like engineers and programmers into the U.S. Denial rates have jumped since the 1990s, as shown in this chart.

Why aren't we talking about illegal Canadian immigrants?

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:33:48 PM

Yet here you are, repeating yourself

Kinder, we can keep going around in circles all night, but I actually have shit to do for the website and college. So, I'm going to leave you some links for you to read and hopefully educate yourself.

Or, you can just skim them and claim liberal bias. Whichever makes you feel better.

Click for Evidence

Let me share some - first, on the border's budget (On the increase) versus Number of people caught







Roughly, it's costing taxpayers 10,000 dollars for every capture of an illegal. 10,000 dollars for every single capture. That is a huge waste of money that could be saved with a reformed system.

Now, let's look at those who attempt to come here legally, by the system that you say is fine but only needs to be enforced.

Quote

Until the early 1990s, less than 3 percent of petitions for naturalization were denied annually. Since then, denials have become much more common.

It's become harder to get naturalized, peaking in the year 2000, as shown below.



This image shows the number of people getting green cards, and why:

Quote

The vast majority of people who obtain permanent residency — "green cards" — are relatives of U.S. citizens. Since at most 7 percent of green cards can legally come from a single country, it's difficult for skilled professionals with no ties to the U.S. to get permanent residency

This makes it difficult for people to legally immigrate here if they do not have family here already. Hence, people resort to illegally coming because they have little option.

As a result, the nation is having trouble getting high skilled workers into the U.S. The L-1B visa allows companies to bring people with "specialized knowledge" like engineers and programmers into the U.S. Denial rates have jumped since the 1990s, as shown in this chart.

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 08:17:38 PM

Quote from: IcyWind on November 19, 2014, 05:42:57 PM

Quote from: Kinder on November 19, 2014, 05:33:48 PM

Yet here you are, repeating yourself

Kinder, we can keep going around in circles all night, but I actually have shit to do for the website and college. So, I'm going to leave you some links for you to read and hopefully educate yourself.

Or, you can just skim them and claim liberal bias. Whichever makes you feel better.

Click for Evidence

Let me share some - first, on the border's budget (On the increase) versus Number of people caught







Roughly, it's costing taxpayers 10,000 dollars for every capture of an illegal. 10,000 dollars for every single capture. That is a huge waste of money that could be saved with a reformed system.

Now, let's look at those who attempt to come here legally, by the system that you say is fine but only needs to be enforced.

Quote

Until the early 1990s, less than 3 percent of petitions for naturalization were denied annually. Since then, denials have become much more common.

It's become harder to get naturalized, peaking in the year 2000, as shown below.



This image shows the number of people getting green cards, and why:

Quote

The vast majority of people who obtain permanent residency — "green cards" — are relatives of U.S. citizens. Since at most 7 percent of green cards can legally come from a single country, it's difficult for skilled professionals with no ties to the U.S. to get permanent residency

This makes it difficult for people to legally immigrate here if they do not have family here already. Hence, people resort to illegally coming because they have little option.

As a result, the nation is having trouble getting high skilled workers into the U.S. The L-1B visa allows companies to bring people with "specialized knowledge" like engineers and programmers into the U.S. Denial rates have jumped since the 1990s, as shown in this chart.

What that nifty chart doesn't show is how the BP has it's money
http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/BP%20Budget%20History%201990-2013.pdf
In 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007. and 2011, money from the previous budget was rolled over into the following year's, increasing the budget/creating a surplus essentially. Alternately, your chart only goes up to 2010; mine shows that the budget has been decreasing since 2010

You also realize border control has other costs including pay checks, health plan/dental plans, sick pay, training costs, upkeep, utilities, and many other things. So I seriously doubt, in fact know, the cost to arrest an illegal is not close to $10k

Yet explain to me how the DoHS shows more people are being deported annually? By this, the cost of of arrest decreases even more


You realize that you don't need to be naturalized in order to legally be in the U.S, correct? That's why we have green cards and other official documents to allow for legal residence

Again, another chart that contradicts yours and shows less petitions have been declined from 2008 to 2011.


There's plenty of factors that contribute to a decrease in less people obtaining legal status. The need for labor has also switched from skilled to less-skilled such as hotel workers, food plant workers, freight, construction etc. You also have corporations that outsource to other countries where they hired skill workers on the spot. But the current economic situation in America makes people realize that there's less of a chance to find a job here so they of course will second-guess coming

Also, only direct family members can get green cards through other family members (spouses, children, and parents)

Denials have increased, but because of actual concerning issues. The government has increased screening of so-called skill workers applying including Requests of Evidence, financial records of companies to prove they are a viable organization. Alternatively, most of these come from Indian workers, not Mexican

Question before I waste any of my time - source for the images, or did you just go to Google?