Obama's Executive Gun Actions

Flee · January 05, 2016, 12:03:00 PM

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Luciana · January 05, 2016, 12:04:39 PM

I like it

Turkey · January 05, 2016, 12:10:53 PM

Posted my views in the other thread. Off-topic but related question: how many of 2015's high-profile shootings would have been prevented by a background check? Because I have a suspicion the answer is "none", so this is really just useless legislation.

Luciana · January 05, 2016, 12:11:59 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 12:10:53 PM

Posted my views in the other thread. Off-topic but related question: how many of 2015's high-profile shootings would have been prevented by a background check? Because I have a suspicion the answer is "none", so this is really just useless legislation.

I like how people say this though

and then just proceed to do absolutely nothing about the flawed status quo

More Than Mortal · January 05, 2016, 12:13:29 PM

Quote from: Luciana on January 05, 2016, 12:11:59 PM

and then just proceed to do absolutely nothing about the flawed status quo

So the solution is to waste political capital doing something useless?

Stagnation is superior to regression.

Not that I agree with him, but that's the point he's making.

Turkey · January 05, 2016, 12:14:51 PM

Quote from: Luciana on January 05, 2016, 12:11:59 PM

and then just proceed to do absolutely nothing about the flawed status quo

So recognizing the inefficacy of reactionary policy means that I, personally, have to devise some sort of legislation to solve America's gun crime problem?

Luciana · January 05, 2016, 12:14:59 PM

Quote from: UltimateKidzBopFan08 on January 05, 2016, 12:13:29 PM

Quote from: Luciana on January 05, 2016, 12:11:59 PM
and then just proceed to do absolutely nothing about the flawed status quo
So the solution is to waste political capital doing something useless?

Stagnation is superior to regression.

Not that I agree with him, but that's the point he's making.

I don't think it's regression at all though

I'd argue my point but I g2g. I'm sure someone will speak in favor for it while I'm gone. See ya.

Luciana · January 05, 2016, 12:16:06 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 12:14:51 PM

Quote from: Luciana on January 05, 2016, 12:11:59 PM
and then just proceed to do absolutely nothing about the flawed status quo

So recognizing the inefficacy of reactionary policy means that I, personally, have to devise some sort of legislation to solve America's gun crime problem?

I was more so referring to politicians and people who say "it ain't gonna do nuffin" and offer no counter alternatives that are at all realistic in a government who's entire right wing is bought out by the NRA. Obviously dramatic, but it's a big issue, the gun lobby. Anyway, g2g.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · January 05, 2016, 12:18:15 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · January 05, 2016, 12:24:50 PM

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Mordo · January 05, 2016, 12:33:25 PM

It's honestly hilarious watching you burgerclaps flip shit on this issue across the pond.

More Than Mortal · January 05, 2016, 12:34:46 PM

Quote from: Mordo on January 05, 2016, 12:33:25 PM

It's honestly hilarious watching you burgerclaps flip shit on this issue across the pond.

^ This.

Turkey · January 05, 2016, 12:37:09 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/12/10/marco-rubios-claim-that-no-recent-mass-shootings-would-have-been-prevented-by-gun-laws/

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/05/universal-background-checks-do-little-to-stop-mass-shootings-study-finds.html

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html?_r=0

Background checks are great. Increased ATF funding is great. None of this would have stopped anything.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · January 05, 2016, 12:37:16 PM

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PSU · January 05, 2016, 12:41:30 PM

Obama unveils his plan to make it harder for LAW ABIDING CITIZENS to get a legal firearm....

Typical, will cost the taxpayers more while restricting more their 2nd amendment right.

Azumarill · January 05, 2016, 12:45:37 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 12:10:53 PM

Because I have a suspicion the answer is "none", so this is really just useless legislation.

i feel like you shouldnt call it useless based on a gut feeling. if it prevents legal firearms sales to criminals, then it serves its intended purpose, even though it wont solve all of our public violence problems overnight. we'll have to find different ways to hurt black market sales, assuredly, but thats an extremely difficult task- we shouldnt just sit idly by and refuse to regulate legal gun sales because many crimes are committed by guns sold/obtained illegally. seems to me that legal firearms proliferation should be something that's regulated.

is it fundamentally wrong to perform background checks on those who would deign to obtain a firearm?

DAS B00T x2 · January 05, 2016, 12:48:43 PM

Meh... the background check broadening isn't anything bad.
That ATF budget increase is literally nothing... it'll put paper in their printer for six months.
I guess I can understand shutting out trusts from the NFA stuff. I don't see why we need to though, considering that maybe what, four NFA firearms have been used in criminal activity in the past 50 years...
I really fucking hate this biotagged iGun GUN OF THE FUTURE ULTRA SAFE ONLY YOU CAN USE IT smartgun™ technology push though. Fucking retarded.

Azumarill · January 05, 2016, 12:51:27 PM

Quote from: DAS THE HALLS on January 05, 2016, 12:48:43 PM

Meh... the background check broadening isn't anything bad.
That ATF budget increase is literally nothing... it'll put paper in their printer for six months.
I guess I can understand shutting out trusts from the NFA stuff. I don't see why we need to though, considering that maybe what, four NFA firearms have been used in criminal activity in the past 50 years...
I really fucking hate this biotagged iGun GUN OF THE FUTURE ULTRA SAFE ONLY YOU CAN USE IT smartgun™ technology push though. Fucking retarded.

im inclined to agree. seems like this is mostly a fluff action so that obama can claim that at least he tried to do something before his term ended. id like to hear the governments plan to crack down on illegal firearms proliferation but something tells me theyre not going to come up with one anytime soon. its easy to understand why they cant, but still..

Super Irish · January 05, 2016, 12:53:23 PM

Sounds like a logical step, though I know next to nothing of what the current system is in America.

I'm guessing this makes Obama quite unpopular across the board (whether or not this was a smart idea). Either way, sounds good for those in mental healthcare if that 500 milion isn't wasted.

Turkey · January 05, 2016, 12:57:19 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 12:45:37 PM

is it fundamentally wrong to perform background checks on those who would deign to obtain a firearm?

Felons already can't buy guns and criminals don't typically but their guns through legal routes.

Azumarill · January 05, 2016, 12:59:27 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 12:57:19 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 12:45:37 PM

is it fundamentally wrong to perform background checks on those who would deign to obtain a firearm?

Felons already can't buy guns and criminals don't typically but their guns through legal routes.

you dodged the question but its ok since you already gave me your answer.

Quote

Background checks are great.

i understand that these executive actions are mostly just for show so that the administration can get liberal brownie points, but lets not pretend like its absolutely worthless.

Turkey · January 05, 2016, 01:03:47 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 12:59:27 PM

but lets not pretend like its absolutely worthless.

I didn't. I said they're ineffective in addressing the issues that inspired their implementation. None of the policies would have stopped any mass shooting. If he wants to increase gun control via funding and background checks that's fine, but passing it off as a response to mass shootings is disingenuous.

Azumarill · January 05, 2016, 01:12:01 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 01:03:47 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 12:59:27 PM
but lets not pretend like its absolutely worthless.

I didn't.

Quote

this is really just useless legislation.

you did.

Quote

If he wants to increase gun control via funding and background checks that's fine, but passing it off as a response to mass shootings is disingenuous.

im inclined to agree. its fluffy posturing. we need to address illegal firearms proliferation and matters of public safety in addition to pushing out (imo, fundamentally necessary) regulations for legal sales. its difficult to discern just what we should do in that regard, but i feel that congress and the obama administration need to work together to begin to address those issues. i also feel like any proposals such a collaboration would come up with should be the subject of a proper dialogue with the citizenry at large so that it can be scrutinized thoroughly.

Turkey · January 05, 2016, 01:14:16 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 01:12:01 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 12:59:27 PM
but lets not pretend like its absolutely worthless.

I didn't.

Quote
this is really just useless legislation.
you did.

Useless at addressing mass shootings. It is. It's not worthless otherwise, but the context of its uselessness was pretty explicit.

Azumarill · January 05, 2016, 01:17:33 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 01:14:16 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on January 05, 2016, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on January 05, 2016, 12:59:27 PM
but lets not pretend like its absolutely worthless.

I didn't.

Quote
this is really just useless legislation.
you did.

Useless at addressing mass shootings. It is. It's not worthless otherwise, but the context of its uselessness was pretty explicit.

you cannot say that with absolute certainty.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · January 05, 2016, 01:19:32 PM

Brownie point legislation. Increased mental health funding is cool, though.

Alternative Facts · January 05, 2016, 01:20:44 PM

Good that they increased mental health funding.

Bad because this won't solve the issue.

Flee · January 05, 2016, 01:30:26 PM

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Septy · January 05, 2016, 02:38:34 PM

It's funny watching people lose their shit over something so fucking stupid.

It's sad though that this is the type of reaction that most Americans have which is why Obama can't get anything done.

Turkey · January 05, 2016, 02:47:38 PM

Quote from: Septy on January 05, 2016, 02:38:34 PM

It's funny watching people lose their shit over something so fucking stupid.

Who is losing their shit over this?