People need to recognize that it's very important to at least try to have a dialogue with the other side, and to advocate for that. It's not going to be easy and I don't think anyone is expecting it to be. But this increasingly pervasive attitude within our society/culture that the other side isn't just wrong but is actually evil, beyond reasoning or redemption, and that discourse with them is somehow a bad thing is just an absolutely abhorrent idea, in my eyes, and a serious threat to society as a whole.

Sorry, but I just don't believe PewDiePie fosters racist or sexist ideas. I don't know what this vile community you're talking about is, I haven't seen it. The "community" I have seen, his fanbase, is full of a very diverse range of people. The guy has nearly 90 million subscribers, and you are bound to have virtually every type of person within that many people, good or bad. PewDiePie has made some mistakes, but it's pretty obvious to me that he doesn't advocate for racist or sexist ideas and I'm not going to hold him responsible for what fringe wackos do or say in his name when he doesn't condone it and has no control over these people. Some people might say he shouldn't be edgy when he has such a large subscriber base, but I don't believe his right to be edgy should be forfeit because of that.

Actually to add to the above you cant expect anyone to be accountable for 90 million other people.

Media is already playing into his hand. BlUe CHecKmaRKs were already blaming Felix and and the likes for '''''radicalizing '''' people.

Im fascinated by these kinds of calculated psychos, though obviously i condone his actions. Even after getting arrested he flashed the OK sign which the media and brainlets take as the white power sign.

The media also portrayed Edward Snowden like he was a traitor but Alex Jones got me into believing the media was lying and taking sides.

Who doesnt just have the word nigger slip out? Everyone does it, I dont think saying that work makes you hitler.

Not for anything, but this is the kind of thing that makes "the Left" use the term "racist" as much as they do. Do I think you dropping the n-word is the worst thing in the world? No. I wouldn't do it, and I would call you out for it. But it IS racist and """problematic,""" and confronting your own racial prejudice to figure out why you felt so comfortable saying it in the first place is what I would encourage you and anyone else to do if you said it in front of me.

A bit tangental, but I saw the opportunity to try and explain why "the Left" thinks everything and everyone is racist and I took it. It's because many of our social problems are racial.

Fair, I dont consider myself racist but using a phrase like 'oh shit nigga' is one that can be used in my group from time to time, that being said it has eased up a hell of a lot these past few years. Im comfortable with the phrase, of course you dont say it to just anyone. That being said wasnt aware it wasnt all that uncommon.

And I said it as more of a satirical sense not racial, but this was way back when and we've all become a lot more careful these days.

I'm going to assume that when "you don't just say it to anyone," you choose a certain group of people to avoid specifically. And what I would like you to do is consider why you choose to only use the word when that group is not present.

If you can't use it with everyone, perhaps it's not good to use at all.

Quote from: Batch on March 17, 2019, 04:15:07 PM

Fair, I dont consider myself racist but using a phrase like 'oh shit nigga' is one that can be used in my group from time to time, that being said it has eased up a hell of a lot these past few years. Im comfortable with the phrase, of course you dont say it to just anyone. That being said wasnt aware it wasnt all that uncommon.

And I said it as more of a satirical sense not racial, but this was way back when and we've all become a lot more careful these days.

I'm going to assume that when "you don't just say it to anyone," you choose a certain group of people to avoid specifically. And what I would like you to do is consider why you choose to only use the word when that group is not present.

If you can't use it with everyone, perhaps it's not good to use at all.

Bunch of Australian guys calling each other cunts and stuff over games. Its vulgar language to use as banter, but we know thats not how you talk to people in general public.

Im not gathering people in my shed and preaching if thats what you mean.

Quote from: Flee on March 16, 2019, 07:29:19 PM

I mean, Pewdiepie has called someone a "fucking nigger", paid people to parade a "death to all jews" sign around, promoted a holocaust denier channel, created a super edgy community rife with racism and sexism that the man himself doesn't say a bad word about.

Who doesnt just have the word nigger slip out? Everyone does it, I dont think saying that work makes you hitler.

ever since i decided it was completely inappropriate for me to say that word, even in "joking" contexts, it hasnt left my mouth, and its been almost four years now. it really isnt that hard, it only happens if you regularly allow yourself to say such language, and its even worse for pewdiepie considering English isnt even his first language

Russian collusion is the biggest conspiracy theory out there. And it's proving to be false and made up.

leadership figures within the alt right like Bannon

Bannon is right wing, but is he a white nationalist though? As far as I know, the alt right is defined as being a white identitarian movement.

I see the term alt right thrown around constantly to refer to anyone controversial or prominent on the right, even people like Ben Shapiro who is Jewish and hated by the alt-right. I don't understand how so many people can just casually label various run-of-the-mill conservatives as being white supremacist.

Also small update onto the gunman, it appears that hes sacked his lawyer.

So basically hes going to turn the courtroom into a platform for some ridiculous nonsense...or hell he'll spout memes and cause more fingers to be pointed in other directions.

https://www.2gb.com/christchurch-massacre-alleged-gunman-sacks-lawyer-opts-to-represent-himself/

I don't think Merkel helped from people radicalizing when she allowed millions of migrants coming to Europe in 2015 from different culture.

Here are the first 7 comments I found on a Young Turks video from 2 days ago. Literally the second video I happened to click on. Also on the sidebar, there was a Jordan Peterson vs SJW video. You may not be satisfied, because it's not as extensive of digging as yours, but I feel it's all I need. You're saying: "look how terrible these people act in these communities", and yet here is how they act on a far-left youtube channel. It only makes sense to me that these people would cluster more heavily in more right-wing communities. I'm not sure how that makes the content creator at all responsible for them.

Who are you to say that these people are not genuinely looking for solutions when they bring up gun control, media influencers, radicalization and so on?

When people are talking about gun control, they're looking for solutions; when they try to connect Chelsea Clinton to the tragedy because she said something that pissed them off, they're not. I interpreted Batch's post as criticizing the latter.

I would never condone any harassment but let's not pretend that a small group (of students) confronting Clinton isn't anything more than just that.

It is when you have thousands of people and big name journalists agreeing with it. Quite frankly, the mob's attacks on free speech is far more concerning to me than anything Pewdiepie has ever done.

While that might be true for some people, I doubt it's a majority.

They're certainly very loud, regardless.

Denouncing "the alt right" when you share many of the same views, attack the same people and present a slightly watered down version of what the most notorious voices are saying doesn't mean much.

Like I said, this seems like thought-policing. I don't see what they're supposed to do to change this, other than changing their beliefs. I could post videos of several of the people you mentioned separating themselves from the alt-right, criticizing the Charlottesville rally, criticizing the Great Replacement conspiracy, condemning the attack last Friday, etc. but I'm not sure it would persuade you. If you had specifically mentioned people like Lauren Southern as radicalizing people, I would be with you, but for the people you listed I just don't see the connection.

I think it's disingenuous to pretend this doesn't happen when people like Bannon and Stormfront have explicitly commented on how useful of a recruitment technique it is.

I looked into this the other day and all I could find was Steve Bannon (allegedly) stating that Gamergate could make an "army" of Trump voters.

And you and I have some pretty different views on how the "fucking nigger", "death to all jews", Shapiro as a host, promoting a holocaust denier channel and all the other stuff somehow are not politics being reflected in his content.

Context is key. He deleted/apologized for/claimed ignorance for most of those things. I'm not sure how people can genuinely think he's some nazi dogwhistle channel with this in mind. I don't watch Pewdiepie, but from what I've read from his fans, he never gets political aside from these cherrypicked slip ups.

Let's not pretend this is some unfounded smear campaign against an innocent epic gamer.

It pretty much is. Regardless, it seems like pretty poor taste to start criticizing a youtuber for accidentally saying the n-word in an article that's supposed to be about 50 people losing their lives.

Your entire position seems kinda contradictory as you both admit that there's a discussion to be had but simultaneously appear to be dismiss any of it actually happening.

I believe there are discussions to be had about the topics I listed in my previous post but I personally disagree with the discussion you're having about holding people accountable that may have little more than some right-wing sympathies (Tim Pool). In my mind the only people connected are the ones that directly sell these ideas and the communities that house them (8chan, Stormfront). Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the connection between Pewdiepie's content and the far-right that can't be explained, and when the media tries to connect him to far-right actions, I do think it's disingenuous.

Sorry if I missed anything.