Quote from: Nick McIntyre on September 14, 2015, 05:23:32 PM>preferring Hillary>ever>preferring someone unelectableOkay.
>preferring Hillary>ever
Quote from: Fagcicle on September 14, 2015, 05:30:59 PMQuote from: Nick McIntyre on September 14, 2015, 05:23:32 PM>preferring Hillary>ever>preferring someone unelectableOkay.Not with that attitude.
conservative sense of humor is so primitive
Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 07:56:06 PMQuote from: Fagcicle on September 14, 2015, 05:30:59 PMQuote from: Nick McIntyre on September 14, 2015, 05:23:32 PM>preferring Hillary>ever>preferring someone unelectableOkay.Not with that attitude.Again, tell me.How many independents and GOP voters do you honestly think are going to vote for a self-proclaimed "socialist" - especially from the swing states of Iowa, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Virginia, etc?He is not going to win on false promises and far-left liberals. That will not happen.
Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on September 14, 2015, 07:38:23 PMconservative sense of humor is so primitiveNot that many people actually see me as a conservative.
GOPers don't vote Democrat anyway
lol
Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 08:24:21 PMGOPers don't vote Democrat anyway9pc of Republicans voted for Obama. . .
I think he's referring to partisans.
9pc of Republicans voted for Obama. . .
I don't know why that's funny.
Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on September 14, 2015, 08:29:44 PMI think he's referring to partisans.Then it's a fucking stupid thing to say. Of course partisan Republicans don't vote Democrat. Otherwise they wouldn't be partisan.
GOPers don't vote Democrat anyway, so that point is moot. Likewise, Democrats will vote for their candidate because Sanders would be better than any Republican president (plus, he's Jewish, so he fulfills that silly little 'minority candidate' requirement). There's still over a year before the election day, so Bernie has plenty of time to motivate the base. And when looking at Bernie's actual views, he's not as much of a 'socialist' as the name would imply.
9% of Republicans is negligible
tell icywind that—he made the point
The problem in America (Not sure how it's fairing for you Brits) is that the partisan divide has simply expanded in American politics - to the point that even the Supreme Court is getting involved in this. Of course there are voters who will always vote Republican and Democratic, but the more that happens, the more the moderate and independent voters matter in an election.They will increasingly decide the outcome, the more that the 40-42% of Republicans vote as such, and vice versa for the Democrats.
Instead, Bernie touts big ideas such as "Invest 1 trillion in spending against income equality, infrastructure, etc." with no set plan on how to get that money besides "More taxes!", and doubling the minimum wage in a span of three years after his election, with no plan laid out as to how that will affect the average business that isn't a god damn Wal-Mart. Even if I support an increase, I don't support such a radical one as quick.
Quote from: Executioner Sigma on September 14, 2015, 08:31:25 PMQuote from: Fuddy-duddy on September 14, 2015, 08:29:44 PMI think he's referring to partisans.Then it's a fucking stupid thing to say. Of course partisan Republicans don't vote Democrat. Otherwise they wouldn't be partisan.The problem in America (Not sure how it's fairing for you Brits) is that the partisan divide has simply expanded in American politics - to the point that even the Supreme Court is getting involved in this. Of course there are voters who will always vote Republican and Democratic, but the more that happens, the more the moderate and independent voters matter in an election.They will increasingly decide the outcome, the more that the 40-42% of Republicans vote as such, and vice versa for the Democrats.Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 08:24:21 PMGOPers don't vote Democrat anyway, so that point is moot. Likewise, Democrats will vote for their candidate because Sanders would be better than any Republican president (plus, he's Jewish, so he fulfills that silly little 'minority candidate' requirement). There's still over a year before the election day, so Bernie has plenty of time to motivate the base. And when looking at Bernie's actual views, he's not as much of a 'socialist' as the name would imply.I do not even know where to begin.First off, the notion that "GOPers don't vote Democratic", while seems nice, is false. In every elections, Presidential or Midterm, there is a good average of 5-10% of the opposing party who votes for your candidate (IE, Democrats who vote for McCain and Republicans for Obama). These moderate voters, along with the independent voters, can have a huge impact in terms of the final outcome of any election. In 2008, when Obama won in a landslide, he garnished 9% of votes from Republican voters, up from 4% for Kerry in 2004, according to the Pew Research Organization. A poll by The Economist showed even more support for Obama by Republicans, winning 22% of conservative affiliated voters, a higher proportion than any Democratic candidate since 1980, source.Second off, the claim that Bernie's views are not "as socialist as the name implies" is even more bullshit - the guy calls himself a socialist, and his views are more align with European liberals than any other Presidential candidate in this race, or the past five elections. Not only does the guy not mention a single bit of foreign policy on his website outside of Iran (Sorry Syria, you and the migrant crisis aren't fucking important),Instead, Bernie touts big ideas such as "Invest 1 trillion in spending against income equality, infrastructure, etc." with no set plan on how to get that money besides "More taxes!", and doubling the minimum wage in a span of three years after his election, with no plan laid out as to how that will affect the average business that isn't a god damn Wal-Mart. Even if I support an increase, I don't support such a radical one as quick.There's also the lovely part of politicizing the Supreme Court even more, but I won't get into that.The fact is that as many fairy tale promises that Bernie Sanders will promise, he can guarantee absolute ZERO of it, because the President Does Not Make The Laws. He is going to have to work with Congress to get anything done, which will more than likely remain, at the very least, half controlled by the Republicans. And guess what? They will go for none of this shit.Bernie Sanders as President is going to only continue the lame-duck Presidency that has shown how broken our government system still is. If you want that, it's kind of sad.
Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 08:31:49 PM9% of Republicans is negligibleJust under a tenth of Republicans is negligible? There's ~280,000,000 adults in the US. Which puts the turnout at roughly 172,480,000. If we assume Republicans themselves had a 61.6pc turnout that would make ~81,999,999 Republicans voting. 10pc of that is ~8,000,000. Bearing in mind we've probably underestimated Republican turnout, we have 8,000,000 votes going to Obama for whatever reason. The difference between Obama and McCain was 10,000,000. That's not negligible.
QuoteInstead, Bernie touts big ideas such as "Invest 1 trillion in spending against income equality, infrastructure, etc." with no set plan on how to get that money besides "More taxes!", and doubling the minimum wage in a span of three years after his election, with no plan laid out as to how that will affect the average business that isn't a god damn Wal-Mart. Even if I support an increase, I don't support such a radical one as quick.This is usually the part where I ask, "Who would you rather have, then?" because it's so incredibly fucking easy to pick apart someone's flaws while simultaneously not finding a better candidate. But I think you already mentioned Kasich.Be honest—did you learn everything you know about Bernie from Meta?Is that why you also support Kasich?just wondering
did you learn everything you know about Bernie from Meta?
Bernie's the actual progressive candidate who more closely reflects the current views of the party.
Quote from: Fagcicle on September 14, 2015, 08:39:33 PMQuote from: Executioner Sigma on September 14, 2015, 08:31:25 PMQuote from: Fuddy-duddy on September 14, 2015, 08:29:44 PMI think he's referring to partisans.Then it's a fucking stupid thing to say. Of course partisan Republicans don't vote Democrat. Otherwise they wouldn't be partisan.The problem in America (Not sure how it's fairing for you Brits) is that the partisan divide has simply expanded in American politics - to the point that even the Supreme Court is getting involved in this. Of course there are voters who will always vote Republican and Democratic, but the more that happens, the more the moderate and independent voters matter in an election.They will increasingly decide the outcome, the more that the 40-42% of Republicans vote as such, and vice versa for the Democrats.Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 08:24:21 PMGOPers don't vote Democrat anyway, so that point is moot. Likewise, Democrats will vote for their candidate because Sanders would be better than any Republican president (plus, he's Jewish, so he fulfills that silly little 'minority candidate' requirement). There's still over a year before the election day, so Bernie has plenty of time to motivate the base. And when looking at Bernie's actual views, he's not as much of a 'socialist' as the name would imply.I do not even know where to begin.First off, the notion that "GOPers don't vote Democratic", while seems nice, is false. In every elections, Presidential or Midterm, there is a good average of 5-10% of the opposing party who votes for your candidate (IE, Democrats who vote for McCain and Republicans for Obama). These moderate voters, along with the independent voters, can have a huge impact in terms of the final outcome of any election. In 2008, when Obama won in a landslide, he garnished 9% of votes from Republican voters, up from 4% for Kerry in 2004, according to the Pew Research Organization. A poll by The Economist showed even more support for Obama by Republicans, winning 22% of conservative affiliated voters, a higher proportion than any Democratic candidate since 1980, source.Second off, the claim that Bernie's views are not "as socialist as the name implies" is even more bullshit - the guy calls himself a socialist, and his views are more align with European liberals than any other Presidential candidate in this race, or the past five elections. Not only does the guy not mention a single bit of foreign policy on his website outside of Iran (Sorry Syria, you and the migrant crisis aren't fucking important),Instead, Bernie touts big ideas such as "Invest 1 trillion in spending against income equality, infrastructure, etc." with no set plan on how to get that money besides "More taxes!", and doubling the minimum wage in a span of three years after his election, with no plan laid out as to how that will affect the average business that isn't a god damn Wal-Mart. Even if I support an increase, I don't support such a radical one as quick.There's also the lovely part of politicizing the Supreme Court even more, but I won't get into that.The fact is that as many fairy tale promises that Bernie Sanders will promise, he can guarantee absolute ZERO of it, because the President Does Not Make The Laws. He is going to have to work with Congress to get anything done, which will more than likely remain, at the very least, half controlled by the Republicans. And guess what? They will go for none of this shit.Bernie Sanders as President is going to only continue the lame-duck Presidency that has shown how broken our government system still is. If you want that, it's kind of sad.Icy, Hillary is an establishment Democrat. She isn't even that liberal to begin with. She's been behind the times on the issues that matter most to liberals; Bernie's the actual progressive candidate who more closely reflects the current views of the party. I never claimed that the President makes laws, either; Hillary won't have congressional Republicans on her side anyway, because they still think she put on a ski mask and personally assassinated Ambassador Stevens, and that her confession (and proof that she revenge cuck'd Bill) is hidden somewhere on her suspiciously private server.A Hillary presidency would be more like another four years of Obama, and the country's getting tired of him. That's been the gist of Bernie's campaign, and he's making the milestones they said he'd never make.
Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 08:52:58 PMBernie's the actual progressive candidate who more closely reflects the current views of the party.Does that actually matter if his ideas are shit, though?
Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on September 14, 2015, 08:52:19 PMdid you learn everything you know about Bernie from Meta?Let's be fair here. I don't misrepresent or omit any of his views, and I give him credit where he deserves it. I'm the same with any politician.
Pending it being a Trump/Cruz GOP ticket, I'll likely actually vote for them next year, because Sanders as President is going to be a fucking disaster.
Quote from: Fagcicle on September 14, 2015, 08:57:31 PMPending it being a Trump/Cruz GOP ticket, I'll likely actually vote for them next year, because Sanders as President is going to be a fucking disaster.I wouldn't go that far. I'd throw my vote away to the Libertarians if Trump were on the ballot for the GOP.
Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 08:52:58 PMQuote from: Fagcicle on September 14, 2015, 08:39:33 PMQuote from: Executioner Sigma on September 14, 2015, 08:31:25 PMQuote from: Fuddy-duddy on September 14, 2015, 08:29:44 PMI think he's referring to partisans.Then it's a fucking stupid thing to say. Of course partisan Republicans don't vote Democrat. Otherwise they wouldn't be partisan.The problem in America (Not sure how it's fairing for you Brits) is that the partisan divide has simply expanded in American politics - to the point that even the Supreme Court is getting involved in this. Of course there are voters who will always vote Republican and Democratic, but the more that happens, the more the moderate and independent voters matter in an election.They will increasingly decide the outcome, the more that the 40-42% of Republicans vote as such, and vice versa for the Democrats.Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 08:24:21 PMGOPers don't vote Democrat anyway, so that point is moot. Likewise, Democrats will vote for their candidate because Sanders would be better than any Republican president (plus, he's Jewish, so he fulfills that silly little 'minority candidate' requirement). There's still over a year before the election day, so Bernie has plenty of time to motivate the base. And when looking at Bernie's actual views, he's not as much of a 'socialist' as the name would imply.I do not even know where to begin.First off, the notion that "GOPers don't vote Democratic", while seems nice, is false. In every elections, Presidential or Midterm, there is a good average of 5-10% of the opposing party who votes for your candidate (IE, Democrats who vote for McCain and Republicans for Obama). These moderate voters, along with the independent voters, can have a huge impact in terms of the final outcome of any election. In 2008, when Obama won in a landslide, he garnished 9% of votes from Republican voters, up from 4% for Kerry in 2004, according to the Pew Research Organization. A poll by The Economist showed even more support for Obama by Republicans, winning 22% of conservative affiliated voters, a higher proportion than any Democratic candidate since 1980, source.Second off, the claim that Bernie's views are not "as socialist as the name implies" is even more bullshit - the guy calls himself a socialist, and his views are more align with European liberals than any other Presidential candidate in this race, or the past five elections. Not only does the guy not mention a single bit of foreign policy on his website outside of Iran (Sorry Syria, you and the migrant crisis aren't fucking important),Instead, Bernie touts big ideas such as "Invest 1 trillion in spending against income equality, infrastructure, etc." with no set plan on how to get that money besides "More taxes!", and doubling the minimum wage in a span of three years after his election, with no plan laid out as to how that will affect the average business that isn't a god damn Wal-Mart. Even if I support an increase, I don't support such a radical one as quick.There's also the lovely part of politicizing the Supreme Court even more, but I won't get into that.The fact is that as many fairy tale promises that Bernie Sanders will promise, he can guarantee absolute ZERO of it, because the President Does Not Make The Laws. He is going to have to work with Congress to get anything done, which will more than likely remain, at the very least, half controlled by the Republicans. And guess what? They will go for none of this shit.Bernie Sanders as President is going to only continue the lame-duck Presidency that has shown how broken our government system still is. If you want that, it's kind of sad.Icy, Hillary is an establishment Democrat. She isn't even that liberal to begin with. She's been behind the times on the issues that matter most to liberals; Bernie's the actual progressive candidate who more closely reflects the current views of the party. I never claimed that the President makes laws, either; Hillary won't have congressional Republicans on her side anyway, because they still think she put on a ski mask and personally assassinated Ambassador Stevens, and that her confession (and proof that she revenge cuck'd Bill) is hidden somewhere on her suspiciously private server.A Hillary presidency would be more like another four years of Obama, and the country's getting tired of him. That's been the gist of Bernie's campaign, and he's making the milestones they said he'd never make.Where in that post did I even mention Clinton's name? Also, you've shared that Atlantic article before - there's no need to keep sharing it, unless they've suddenly decided to add in new information.America does not a European liberal - they need a President candidate who can get past this shitty partisanship and actually start governing to fix the shitty issues that continue to affect our country. That is never going to be Bernie, and you're right that it probably will not be Hilary (Though she stands a better chance than Sanders). Pending it being a Trump/Cruz GOP ticket, I'll likely actually vote for them next year, because Sanders as President is going to be a fucking disaster.Quote me on that.
Hillary is the definition of a partisan. I really can't imagine her doing anything else but maintaining the status quo.
Quote from: Kupo on September 14, 2015, 09:03:47 PMHillary is the definition of a partisan. I really can't imagine her doing anything else but maintaining the status quo.A more moderate candidate has a much stronger chance of working with the opposing side than, say, someone who is far-left equivalent of Cruz.You must agree to at least that.
New Poll has Sanders Up 20pts in New Hampshire, 10 in Iowa
