Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:31:47 PM

Quote from: IcyWind on December 14, 2014, 04:30:48 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 14, 2014, 04:29:30 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:26:50 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 14, 2014, 04:26:08 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:24:47 PM

Quote from: IcyWind on December 14, 2014, 04:11:00 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:08:46 PM

Actually, illegal immigrants get more benefits than legal immigrants. My grandmother had to learn English from watching Sesame Street, yet here's some illegals that get free education and my grandmother got absolutely nothing

Considering your Grandmother likely came here before SCOTUS ruled that education had to be provided to all immigrant children...

Does it matter? She had the strict rule of no Spanish in the household, only English

And how is this at all relevant to immigration policy?
Oh wait, anecdotal claims aren't.

It's not ancedotal as this used to be a common occurrence

Okay, but how is it relevant to modern immigration policy?

Now stop me if I'm wrong, but are you actually trying to imply that the children of immigrants or children who immigrate to the country should be denied education - which is a fundamental human right.

Mr. P, please. You know the United States is above any of that trivial United Nations bullshit. Why should we have to deal with countries who are so beneath us?

The UN is shit

lol

I'll leave you with this. It's a topic for another day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:38:19 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 14, 2014, 04:34:26 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:31:47 PM

Quote from: IcyWind on December 14, 2014, 04:30:48 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 14, 2014, 04:29:30 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:26:50 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 14, 2014, 04:26:08 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:24:47 PM

Quote from: IcyWind on December 14, 2014, 04:11:00 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 04:08:46 PM

Actually, illegal immigrants get more benefits than legal immigrants. My grandmother had to learn English from watching Sesame Street, yet here's some illegals that get free education and my grandmother got absolutely nothing

Considering your Grandmother likely came here before SCOTUS ruled that education had to be provided to all immigrant children...

Does it matter? She had the strict rule of no Spanish in the household, only English

And how is this at all relevant to immigration policy?
Oh wait, anecdotal claims aren't.

It's not ancedotal as this used to be a common occurrence

Okay, but how is it relevant to modern immigration policy?

Now stop me if I'm wrong, but are you actually trying to imply that the children of immigrants or children who immigrate to the country should be denied education - which is a fundamental human right.

Mr. P, please. You know the United States is above any of that trivial United Nations bullshit. Why should we have to deal with countries who are so beneath us?

The UN is shit

lol

I'll leave you with this. It's a topic for another day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations

A Wikipedia article about criticisms of a global organization.

I'm sure I can find one about the Red Cross too. Doesn't mean they're shit.

Seeing as how it cites over 50 different sources......

All we have to do is remove the incentives that brought them here in the first place.

Great, let's make immigration easier.

The incentives aren't just the "goodies" they can get. It's to do with being in a more stable social and macroeconomic environment. I'd rather be poor in American than poor in Mexico.

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 03:19:16 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 02:43:18 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 02:23:39 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 02:09:21 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 01:58:54 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 01:55:35 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 01:55:03 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 01:49:06 PM

Any American against immigration is not an American and doesn't believe in the American Dream.

There's no such thing as "illegal" immigrants.

I'm going to hold off on starting an argument. Half of my family are immigrants and we have no respect for illegals

Good for you. You're not true Americans.

Yeah we are. My mom's side of the family worked hard to survive and embraced the American Dream, unlike many illegals; all they care about is coming here and sending money back to their home country, my family and true immigrants want to assimilate into American culture and become an American, that's what immigration is about. If you're not going to bother to learn the language, educate yourself, stay away from crime, and spend money on American business then you have no reason to immigrate

And "illegal" immigrants don't do this? I knew a shit ton of Mexicans with no papers who were American as fuck.

Papers don't mean shit. Do criminals get in through the border? Yes. You solve that problem by making immigration easier and pardoning paperwork mistakes or status issues after 5 or 10 years.

Immigrants are immigrants. Every American is an immigrant, and they're all illegal at that. Did the natives give any of you a visa? Nope. No American has the right to complain about immigration when these people are doing the same shit your ancestors did. The majority of people that go to America are in search of a better life and integrate into the country and culture. I don't give a fuck whether they're "legal" or not. Give em some fucking papers and have them pay taxes and contribute and I guarantee you they'll start sending their kids to school and college a lot more because they won't be afraid of getting deported after living there a decade.

The immigration system is fucked up and needs to be fixed. Because criminals keep pouring in, and good people keep getting fucked over.

No, because if they want to be American then they would have gone through the legal and correct way

Like I said, papers don't make you an American.

Quote

They do mean shit.

No they don't. I'm a European citizen and I've never felt like a European nor do I wish to be one.

 

Quote

So the answer to solving crime is to make it easier for criminals to get through? Seriously?

I never said that. I said the exact opposite.

Quote

Ever hear about the illegal that killed two cops like a month or two ago? You actually want that to be a common occurrence?

Ever hear about the "illegal" immigrants that did something Americans couldn't do? http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/review-spare-parts-about-undocumented-science-whiz-teenagers-by-joshua-davis/2014/12/12/8da3b176-7bef-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html

Quote

Let's not forget that Reagan had a huge hand in creating the MS13 by giving amnesty to illegals; maybe if their asses were kicked out, one of the nation's most violent gangs wouldn't exist

These people came from a war torn nation and the majority of the men were fighting and had blown people's heads off at close range. It's like Romania being in the EU. Terrible idea. It's not a good idea to allow just anybody in. I've already said that.   

Quote

Immigrants are people who come here lawfully; illegals are, you guessed it, people that come unlawfully.

They're both immigrants. Go grab yourself a dictionary. 

Quote

Seriously going to bring that hippie liberal "all americans are illegal" bullshit?

Yup. The colonials invaded and took land. You didn't apply for a visa. You didn't ask the Natives' permission.

Quote

The natives are fucking illegal by your logic, because they came here from Asia/Russia via the Bearing Strait.

Except there were no humans there until they arrived.

Quote

Oh, and it's not like I myself came from Europe, I was born on American soil, making me an American.

I don't know why you're bringing that up, because your ancestors (depending on which generation you are) didn't ask the natives for permission either.

Quote

Oh,

Finish having an orgasm and get back to me.

Quote

and Europeans also traded goods to the Natives for land.

Not exactly. Treaties were made and then broken and the land was almost always taken by force eventually.

Quote

But would that mean the land taken from Natives by other Natives through war is also illegal?

Seeing how they were all from the same continent, that's a different subject. That's like asking me if a King leads an army to take nearby lands from rebellious people would be illegal. It's irrelevant and a strawman at best.

Quote

Would the children of the conquerors be illegal?

Again, irrelevant. I'm talking about colonials invading and taking land from the natives. All the immigrants of today are doing are coming across without permission (just like European Americans) but instead of killing people and stealing land, they work the jobs European Americans are too lazy to do.

Quote

Oh, how about all the goods and land the Natives stole from colonists?

How exactly does this have anything to do with immigration.

Quote

The immigration is fucked up, it's fucked up because the government gives incentives to illegals.

Like being thrown into a federal prison and then deported and barred for life?

Quote

Go into Mexico illegally and see what happens, your ass will be thrown in a Mexican prison and you'll be forgotten

So essentially we should degrade America to Mexico's standards?

Except papers do make you an American.

Legally. Not culturally.

Quote

My birth certificate says I'm born in America, making me an American.

Right, legally. But say America's laws were such that if you were born there you wouldn't get papers anyway if your parents were so called "illegal" immigrants. Wouldn't you still consider yourself American? That's exactly how the majority of these "illegal aliens" feel.

Quote

Passports and green cards tells people certain individuals are allowed to live or visit the country. What do illegals have to prove they are either citizens or legally able to be in America? Ding ding ding: NOTHING

Right, and the immigration a system needs to be fixed so people can get papers. 

Quote

What you feel=/=what government says

So if somebody moved to America with their parents when they were 3 years old and has been living there until age 16 they wouldn't be Americans because the government says they aren't? All of a sudden you agree with everything the government has to say?

Quote

You did said it; you said it by advocating for far easier access, granting cartels an even easier way into the country

Yes, I'm sure fixing the immigration system will have all the criminals pour into America. Hey, it's not like they're doing it now right?

Quote

That's nice and all, but they're kids; they were forced to come here by their parents. This isn't a story about some 30 year old, it's a story about some kids who only know America as their home, not Mexico or where ever

What exactly is your point? We're talking about immigrants and you randomly bring up a criminal as if that's all Mexicans are, and I show you how four Mexican immigrants are more American than many people born in America.

Quote

Too fucking bad if they came from a war-torn area. The actions of Reagan created one of the most notorious and violent American gangs in existence. Instead of keeping the violence contained in one country, it now has spread to multiple. I don't know about you, but having crime spreading isn't going to do any good

When did I say we should pity them? I said the reason MS13 was created is because Salvadorians at that time were in an extremely bloody civil war. So the majority of the males granted amnesty were hardened killers. Try reading and not just skimming and making assumptions. 

Quote

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal+immigrant
illegal alien
noun
1.
a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.
2.
a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson.

"illegal+immigrant

They're immigrants in every sense of the word.

Quote

I'm a colonist now? Because I don't remember travelling via ship to America. I was born on American soil, making me a Native American, just like the so called other "Natives". Only difference between us is skin color and culture, other than that they migrated from Asia just like how my ancestors immigrated here from Europe

Never said that. But no, you're not native to America. And using this logic, everybody everywhere is an immigrant except for Africans in Africa because it's the motherland. See how that doesn't make sense?

Quote

And that matters how exactly? It doesn't matter. At all. Populated or not, they were never born here and thus not native

Really? Native Americans were never born in America? Did they go have them out in the sea then take them back to America? Please continue.

Quote

I'm not my ancestors; I'm me. Why are you bringing up people who are not me?

Because funnily enough, this isn't about you.

Quote

So the lands conquered by other nations from around the world are there forth illegally their's? That's what happens in consenting war; somebody gains something, the other looses something. That's how it has been for 1000s of years

Sure. Doesn't make you a Native American, however.

Quote

Same continent? That's seriously all you can think of? So does that mean Turkey has to give Europe Instanbul and it's European holdings since it originally began in Asia? Russia also spans into Europe and Asia

Seeing how it's natives conquering other natives, no. It's not different peoples with different cultures and nations. There are several different nations in Europe.

Quote

Not irrelevant. Lands the Cherokee conquered from nearby enemies would mean any born on them isn't native born Cherokee, going by your logic. Natives also never believed in land ownership so nothing was technically taken from them as they never owned it. You can't steal something somebody else doesn't own

This is all extremely irrelevant. You brought up all this to strawman my argument. I'm talking about immigration, not the conquering of people. My point was your and other people's ancestors never asked the natives for permission to live in America. They took the land by force. Maybe not your ancestors, but again, this isn't about you.

Quote

Because you claim the stuff Europeans "stole" don't belong to them, well "natives" stole from Europeans so they're equally wrong

The natives stole land from the Europeans in Europe? Do tell. Or wait, you mean regained their lands back from European invaders?

Quote

Yep, because illegals only cross over once and never again. You got me their m8 //sarcasm

They don't tend to go back and forth, seeing how incredibly dangerous it is and people cross over to live in America. It's not some sort of game where they see who can enter undetected.

Quote

No, we should make people realize that if you brake the law, you will be treated like the piece of shit criminal scum that you are

break*

Yes, those infants crossing the border with their hard working parents sure are "piece of shit criminal scum". What with their working for peanuts and never complaining and being the backbone of America.

Answer the question: America should degrade itself to Mexico's standards?

Culturally? That isn't even part of the discussion. This is the damn law we're talking about here

Ever heard of something called the Constitution? Born on American soil, you're an American. Simple? Simple. And again, this is not a discussion on culture

It works perfectly fine

The Constitution* Might wanna correct your statement

They're already pouring in. Make it easier, then more will pour in. It's like a clogged drain: Only some water will go down the drain, but once you clear it then a lot of water will go down

You know very well what my point is. You can stop this word twisting game. These kids most likely didn't make the self-conscious decision to come here, they were forced

I don't know, where did I say all Mexicans are criminals? If Reagan hadn't given amnesty, we wouldn't have the issue of MS13

No, no, no. An immigrant is somebody who enters another country. An illegal immigrant is somebody who enters illegally. This isn't about immigrants, this about ILLEGAL immigrants. I have nothing against people that come here legally and I embrace those that do

How am I not native to America when the Constitution says that I am? And good, you're picking up on how idiotic the debate that Europeans are illegals are

Just going by your logic. Somehow they're native to America for being born here, but I'm born here and am not? Come on, I know you're more logical than that

Seeing as how you're saying I'm not a native, then it is about me

So does that mean Mongols conquering parts of E. Europe or Romans conquering parts of Africa and the Middle-East was wrong, since different cultures and all?

Nope, not a straw man argument. I answered the question and simply gave more to it

You mean stole the lands they traded off or lost in war?

Really, they don't? Then all the things I've read and watched must be all lies then. huh? Please tell me where you got your degree on the issue since you seem to know what these people are doing

>says im using starwman
>uses appeal to emotion fallacy

They're infants? Too bad, they can go back and wait the legal way once they grow up. Not my concern

I did answer

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 06:12:15 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 05:32:29 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 03:19:16 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 02:43:18 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 02:23:39 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 02:09:21 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 01:58:54 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 01:55:35 PM

Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 14, 2014, 01:55:03 PM

Quote from: challengerX on December 14, 2014, 01:49:06 PM

Any American against immigration is not an American and doesn't believe in the American Dream.

There's no such thing as "illegal" immigrants.

I'm going to hold off on starting an argument. Half of my family are immigrants and we have no respect for illegals

Good for you. You're not true Americans.

Yeah we are. My mom's side of the family worked hard to survive and embraced the American Dream, unlike many illegals; all they care about is coming here and sending money back to their home country, my family and true immigrants want to assimilate into American culture and become an American, that's what immigration is about. If you're not going to bother to learn the language, educate yourself, stay away from crime, and spend money on American business then you have no reason to immigrate

And "illegal" immigrants don't do this? I knew a shit ton of Mexicans with no papers who were American as fuck.

Papers don't mean shit. Do criminals get in through the border? Yes. You solve that problem by making immigration easier and pardoning paperwork mistakes or status issues after 5 or 10 years.

Immigrants are immigrants. Every American is an immigrant, and they're all illegal at that. Did the natives give any of you a visa? Nope. No American has the right to complain about immigration when these people are doing the same shit your ancestors did. The majority of people that go to America are in search of a better life and integrate into the country and culture. I don't give a fuck whether they're "legal" or not. Give em some fucking papers and have them pay taxes and contribute and I guarantee you they'll start sending their kids to school and college a lot more because they won't be afraid of getting deported after living there a decade.

The immigration system is fucked up and needs to be fixed. Because criminals keep pouring in, and good people keep getting fucked over.

No, because if they want to be American then they would have gone through the legal and correct way

Like I said, papers don't make you an American.

Quote

They do mean shit.

No they don't. I'm a European citizen and I've never felt like a European nor do I wish to be one.

 

Quote

So the answer to solving crime is to make it easier for criminals to get through? Seriously?

I never said that. I said the exact opposite.

Quote

Ever hear about the illegal that killed two cops like a month or two ago? You actually want that to be a common occurrence?

Ever hear about the "illegal" immigrants that did something Americans couldn't do? http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/review-spare-parts-about-undocumented-science-whiz-teenagers-by-joshua-davis/2014/12/12/8da3b176-7bef-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html

Quote

Let's not forget that Reagan had a huge hand in creating the MS13 by giving amnesty to illegals; maybe if their asses were kicked out, one of the nation's most violent gangs wouldn't exist

These people came from a war torn nation and the majority of the men were fighting and had blown people's heads off at close range. It's like Romania being in the EU. Terrible idea. It's not a good idea to allow just anybody in. I've already said that.   

Quote

Immigrants are people who come here lawfully; illegals are, you guessed it, people that come unlawfully.

They're both immigrants. Go grab yourself a dictionary. 

Quote

Seriously going to bring that hippie liberal "all americans are illegal" bullshit?

Yup. The colonials invaded and took land. You didn't apply for a visa. You didn't ask the Natives' permission.

Quote

The natives are fucking illegal by your logic, because they came here from Asia/Russia via the Bearing Strait.

Except there were no humans there until they arrived.

Quote

Oh, and it's not like I myself came from Europe, I was born on American soil, making me an American.

I don't know why you're bringing that up, because your ancestors (depending on which generation you are) didn't ask the natives for permission either.

Quote

Oh,

Finish having an orgasm and get back to me.

Quote

and Europeans also traded goods to the Natives for land.

Not exactly. Treaties were made and then broken and the land was almost always taken by force eventually.

Quote

But would that mean the land taken from Natives by other Natives through war is also illegal?

Seeing how they were all from the same continent, that's a different subject. That's like asking me if a King leads an army to take nearby lands from rebellious people would be illegal. It's irrelevant and a strawman at best.

Quote

Would the children of the conquerors be illegal?

Again, irrelevant. I'm talking about colonials invading and taking land from the natives. All the immigrants of today are doing are coming across without permission (just like European Americans) but instead of killing people and stealing land, they work the jobs European Americans are too lazy to do.

Quote

Oh, how about all the goods and land the Natives stole from colonists?

How exactly does this have anything to do with immigration.

Quote

The immigration is fucked up, it's fucked up because the government gives incentives to illegals.

Like being thrown into a federal prison and then deported and barred for life?

Quote

Go into Mexico illegally and see what happens, your ass will be thrown in a Mexican prison and you'll be forgotten

So essentially we should degrade America to Mexico's standards?

Except papers do make you an American.

Legally. Not culturally.

Quote

My birth certificate says I'm born in America, making me an American.

Right, legally. But say America's laws were such that if you were born there you wouldn't get papers anyway if your parents were so called "illegal" immigrants. Wouldn't you still consider yourself American? That's exactly how the majority of these "illegal aliens" feel.

Quote

Passports and green cards tells people certain individuals are allowed to live or visit the country. What do illegals have to prove they are either citizens or legally able to be in America? Ding ding ding: NOTHING

Right, and the immigration a system needs to be fixed so people can get papers. 

Quote

What you feel=/=what government says

So if somebody moved to America with their parents when they were 3 years old and has been living there until age 16 they wouldn't be Americans because the government says they aren't? All of a sudden you agree with everything the government has to say?

Quote

You did said it; you said it by advocating for far easier access, granting cartels an even easier way into the country

Yes, I'm sure fixing the immigration system will have all the criminals pour into America. Hey, it's not like they're doing it now right?

Quote

That's nice and all, but they're kids; they were forced to come here by their parents. This isn't a story about some 30 year old, it's a story about some kids who only know America as their home, not Mexico or where ever

What exactly is your point? We're talking about immigrants and you randomly bring up a criminal as if that's all Mexicans are, and I show you how four Mexican immigrants are more American than many people born in America.

Quote

Too fucking bad if they came from a war-torn area. The actions of Reagan created one of the most notorious and violent American gangs in existence. Instead of keeping the violence contained in one country, it now has spread to multiple. I don't know about you, but having crime spreading isn't going to do any good

When did I say we should pity them? I said the reason MS13 was created is because Salvadorians at that time were in an extremely bloody civil war. So the majority of the males granted amnesty were hardened killers. Try reading and not just skimming and making assumptions. 

Quote

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal+immigrant
illegal alien
noun
1.
a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.
2.
a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson.

"illegal+immigrant

They're immigrants in every sense of the word.

Quote

I'm a colonist now? Because I don't remember travelling via ship to America. I was born on American soil, making me a Native American, just like the so called other "Natives". Only difference between us is skin color and culture, other than that they migrated from Asia just like how my ancestors immigrated here from Europe

Never said that. But no, you're not native to America. And using this logic, everybody everywhere is an immigrant except for Africans in Africa because it's the motherland. See how that doesn't make sense?

Quote

And that matters how exactly? It doesn't matter. At all. Populated or not, they were never born here and thus not native

Really? Native Americans were never born in America? Did they go have them out in the sea then take them back to America? Please continue.

Quote

I'm not my ancestors; I'm me. Why are you bringing up people who are not me?

Because funnily enough, this isn't about you.

Quote

So the lands conquered by other nations from around the world are there forth illegally their's? That's what happens in consenting war; somebody gains something, the other looses something. That's how it has been for 1000s of years

Sure. Doesn't make you a Native American, however.

Quote

Same continent? That's seriously all you can think of? So does that mean Turkey has to give Europe Instanbul and it's European holdings since it originally began in Asia? Russia also spans into Europe and Asia

Seeing how it's natives conquering other natives, no. It's not different peoples with different cultures and nations. There are several different nations in Europe.

Quote

Not irrelevant. Lands the Cherokee conquered from nearby enemies would mean any born on them isn't native born Cherokee, going by your logic. Natives also never believed in land ownership so nothing was technically taken from them as they never owned it. You can't steal something somebody else doesn't own

This is all extremely irrelevant. You brought up all this to strawman my argument. I'm talking about immigration, not the conquering of people. My point was your and other people's ancestors never asked the natives for permission to live in America. They took the land by force. Maybe not your ancestors, but again, this isn't about you.

Quote

Because you claim the stuff Europeans "stole" don't belong to them, well "natives" stole from Europeans so they're equally wrong

The natives stole land from the Europeans in Europe? Do tell. Or wait, you mean regained their lands back from European invaders?

Quote

Yep, because illegals only cross over once and never again. You got me their m8 //sarcasm

They don't tend to go back and forth, seeing how incredibly dangerous it is and people cross over to live in America. It's not some sort of game where they see who can enter undetected.

Quote

No, we should make people realize that if you brake the law, you will be treated like the piece of shit criminal scum that you are

break*

Yes, those infants crossing the border with their hard working parents sure are "piece of shit criminal scum". What with their working for peanuts and never complaining and being the backbone of America.

Answer the question: America should degrade itself to Mexico's standards?

Culturally? That isn't even part of the discussion. This is the damn law we're talking about here

The "damn law" is written in such a way that people who have lived in America their whole lives are deported because they went their illegally.

Quote

Ever heard of something called the Constitution? Born on American soil, you're an American. Simple? Simple. And again, this is not a discussion on culture

Ever heard of a hypothetical? I'm trying to get you to understand what it's like walking in their shoes, but you have some serious reading comprehension problems.

Quote

It works perfectly fine

Which is why good people who don't harm anybody and have lived in America for years are deported. Right.

Quote

The Constitution* Might wanna correct your statement

Sick rebuttal. Might wanna say something original and try to actually come up with a valid reason.

Quote

They're already pouring in. Make it easier, then more will pour in. It's like a clogged drain: Only some water will go down the drain, but once you clear it then a lot of water will go down

Right. You realize more money can be put into securing the border when you have good people coming in legally who have never committed crimes?

Quote

You know very well what my point is. You can stop this word twisting game. These kids most likely didn't make the self-conscious decision to come here, they were forced

Youre the only one twisting words and moving the goal posts. You brought up an illegal immigrant who killed a cop, I brought up 4 illegal immigrants who have contributed to America big time and one of them would've joined the military of he had papers. 

Quote

I don't know, where did I say all Mexicans are criminals? If Reagan hadn't given amnesty, we wouldn't have the issue of MS13

And? I've never said Reagan should've given amnesty to Salvadorians when there was a war like that going on. I don't know why you keep bringing him up. 

Quote

No, no, no. An immigrant is somebody who enters another country. An illegal immigrant is somebody who enters illegally. This isn't about immigrants, this about ILLEGAL immigrants. I have nothing against people that come here legally and I embrace those that do

They're immigrants either way, so I don't know what the fuck you're going on about.

Quote

How am I not native to America when the Constitution says that I am? And good, you're picking up on how idiotic the debate that Europeans are illegals are

You're American, but you're not a Native American. That term is reserved for the brown skinned folks who almost got wiped out. The constitution has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about people native to that pierce of land.

Quote

Just going by your logic. Somehow they're native to America for being born here, but I'm born here and am not? Come on, I know you're more logical than that

>patronizing :^)

Again, it's a term reserved for them.

Quote

Seeing as how you're saying I'm not a native, then it is about me

The conversation is about immigration. You brought up all sorts of irrelevant shit and you're taking this personally. 

Quote

So does that mean Mongols conquering parts of E. Europe or Romans conquering parts of Africa and the Middle-East was wrong, since different cultures and all?

I don't agree with the conquering of anybody.

Quote

Nope, not a straw man argument. I answered the question and simply gave more to it

lolsure

Quote

You mean stole the lands they traded off or lost in war?

They stole something that was already theirs? lolk

I don't claim that the Natives didn't do some fucked up shit. But, you act like they did something wrong by taking back land that belonged to them.

Quote

Really, they don't? Then all the things I've read and watched must be all lies then. huh? Please tell me where you got your degree on the issue since you seem to know what these people are doing

It's simple logic. If you'd like to show some stats proving otherwise, go ahead.

Quote

>says im using starwman
>uses appeal to emotion fallacy

That isn't an appeal to emotion fallacy, it's the truth. You're calling hard working people criminal scum when it's on people like this that Anerica was built upon.

Quote

They're infants? Too bad, they can go back and wait the legal way once they grow up. Not my concern

"FUCK BABIES" - Kinder 2014

Quote

I did answer

No you didn't. And my proof for that is the fact that you won't repeat your supposed answer. If you have an answer to such a simple question, you'd repeat it. But you're hoping among all these words I'll get confused and think you did.

Close, but no. America is built on immigrants. It's a nation of immigrants. To shun people coming to work and integrate even if it's illegal, is one the most unAmerican things you can do.

Then they should have come here legally. It's not difficult to understand that if you're not authorized to be somewhere, then you're there illegally

I have reading comprehension issues? Look at the pot calling the kettle black, everybody! Stop using the piss-poor appeal to emotion fallacy, because it won't work on me. The governing document of the nation says that if you're born here, then you're a natural-born citizen

Actually, they are harming people; they're using tax dollars for all these benefits when they break the law. That money could be directed to American families that are in need instead

I don't know about you, but the Constitution is the top most law of the land and is the most valid reason anybody can think of. If we're going to disregard it, then might as well ban free speech, establish a non-secular government, and sentence people without trial

What? Why are you still talking about legals? This subject has nothing to do with them

Really, is that so? You're notorious for doing such and it's evident in this thread. I brought up an illegal who entered America on his own illegally, you're bringing up kids who had no say in the manner; there exists a VERY big difference and if you can't understand that then I feel sorry for you

So you support amnesty now, but not back then? What if in a 10 years time another violent gang rises? Will you not support amnesty now?

Except one side are a bunch of illegals. Stop trying to move the goal posts

>brown skinned people
If I haven't seen discrimination, then this is the first time I have. What, you think only black people can be African-American? Hate to break it to you, but Native Americans can be any color. But it does have something to do with it, since they're all U.S citizens

And I answered your question, decided to throw in a bit extra just to show how illogical your statement was. of course I'm taking this personally, my family are immigrants so if anybody should be on point with the subject then it's me

Nobody cares what you agree with. It will still happen

K

How can something be theirs if they 1. Sold it and 2. Lost it in warfare? They loose all possession of it there after. I guess N. Ireland should be given back to the Republic of Ireland or Taiwan be given back mainland China

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2010/12/27/deported-illegal-immigrants-return-repeatedly.html

America was built upon people who entered legally

Again, here you are using appeal to emotion. How do you logical expect for the country to take care of children when current child homelessness is 2.2 million? We can't fucking sole our own domestic issue and you expect us to take on more people. Fucking think for a second

You're seriously going to get your underwear twisted over me not copy pasting something? Fucking pathetic. No, we should make people realize that if you brake the law, you will be treated like the piece of shit criminal scum that you are

Quote from: Saint Nick McIntyre on December 14, 2014, 06:05:02 PM

Quote from: TrussingDoor on December 14, 2014, 04:35:43 PM

The native civilization got BTFO.

I know it's the new trend to whine about da ebul colonialz or whatever, but seriously, they lost.

Welcome to the real world, baby. If your culture can't deal with belligerents, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Adapt or die.

So you would be completely, 100% A-OK  if another country invaded us, destroyed us, and forced us to accept their culture?

Perhaps I should have made it more ridiculous.
That post was not intended to be anything more than shitposting in a shitty thread.
That's not my actual opinion.

#DAMAGECONTROL

Quote from: TrussingDoor on December 14, 2014, 09:08:24 PM

Quote from: Saint Nick McIntyre on December 14, 2014, 06:05:02 PM

Quote from: TrussingDoor on December 14, 2014, 04:35:43 PM

The native civilization got BTFO.

I know it's the new trend to whine about da ebul colonialz or whatever, but seriously, they lost.

Welcome to the real world, baby. If your culture can't deal with belligerents, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Adapt or die.

So you would be completely, 100% A-OK  if another country invaded us, destroyed us, and forced us to accept their culture?

Perhaps I should have made it more ridiculous.
That post was not intended to be anything more than shitposting in a shitty thread.
That's not my actual opinion.

#DAMAGECONTROL

TOO MUCH DAMAGE TO THE SHIP CAPTAIN!

WE'RE SINKING!

I hate the Daily Currant. They don't even do satire very well.

I still want the ability to specifically like edits for purposes of clarity.