I HATE people who blame our countries for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism

I just got this remark from somebody on another forum I use:

Every time we kill a terrorist or bomb a mosque we are giving extremists propaganda, which they then use against us. Instead we need to help countries effected by extremism form stable governments which help the people of the population. Not invading them, murdering people and then having anti-Muslim press in our own nation. We must appear like monsters to them, and rightly so.

I promptly went apeshit:

Well, they would do that wouldn't they. If I had some radical insurgency in the name of democracy and liberalism and Westernism in Pakistan at the moment and used dead insurgents as propaganda, would that be qualitatively identical? Australian tourists were murdered in Bali by al-Qaeda a few years ago. . . Do you know why? Because Australia was part of the coalition that stopped East Timor from being annexed and from suffering a genocide at the hands of Indonesia.

Are we really to capitulate to these people? These brutes who will use our unwillingness to allow genocide as a matter of hostility and propaganda. You're morally insane if you think so. I'm still waiting for the hundreds of bin Laden's we were promised would rise up to replace him, and even assuming this to be true: let me. We'll kill them all the same. You can't reason or negotiate with these people; faith is one of the best things at cutting off the conversation.

We are not the imperialists here, and we are not the ones of an inferior moral position. Using just the wars in Iraq against a psychopathically fascistic and fundamentally Sunni regime we have accomplished the protection of a minority bigger than the Palestinians who have been systematically oppressed in the region, at least until 2011 when we pulled out. We accomplished one of the biggest non-proliferation victories of any American or British administration, traced the AQ Khan network and took a number of weapons of mass destruction and a keystone Arab state out of the hands of Hussein and his criminal family, all despite the unfortunate incompetence of some aspects of the operation.

We are not the ones trying to redraw the map and establish some divinely-ordained caliphate. If you really have the audacity to accuse me of being blinded by patriotism, the only thing I can conclude is that you don't understand just how fucking horrendous these people are and how it isn't our fault.

If you want to refute my argument, then tell me how we're supposed to negotiate with people who will hate you for not allowing the military adventurism and genocidal actions of Islamic states, who will hate you for protecting the Kurds or the Shi'a -- or in some instances the Sunni -- and how we're supposed to negotiate with organisiation which have no interest in stemming the poverty and destitution of their constituents if it goes against the interests of their holy crusades.

How would you stop them?

Edit:
>youthdebates

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How would you stop them?

Bombs

The question was for Meta, so don't expect a discussion to be given from me to you.

How would you stop them?

Bombs

The question was for Meta, so don't expect a discussion to be given from me to you.

Bombs

How would you stop them?

Bombs

The question was for Meta, so don't expect a discussion to be given from me to you.

Bombs

This is how the youth- nay, the population is affected mentally by issues and dilemmas. Have you seen the Interview? In a scene the North Korean tells them that they shouldn't kill Kim Young Un before they show the people that he is a human, and is capable of low things that humans do.

You want to kill Kim Young Un and have a new power governing, but what you fail to see is that the legacy will live longer. If bad luck arises, then there'd be a new dictator many years from the date of killing Kim Young Un, but with the humiliation he becomes a joke to everyone.

Hitler is still considered a decent guy by many neo-nazis (outcasts), but what if the Russians had gotten to him first? His whole idea would have been ridiculed even more, and he'd have less followers.

If you want to confront moslims (outcasts), then the above would most likely happen, even if you somehow succeed; which you won't.

My idea? My idea is to get Muslim immigrants from Africa, and other countries so that their religion is the focus, and not the social circles and such. Imagine how different people with the same belief would talk to each other; imagine how issues would be handled, and imagine how the new generation would be able to choose not only from the two options that are Moslim or not, but actual Muslim beliefs and POV on issues as there's sure to be many POV. Imagine the option of a good-by-heart Muslim being brought in.

so many spelling mistakes and such

Edit: Oh and as you do this you must treat all Muslims as well as you can, or there'll be much evidence for the new Muslims to follow the Moslims.

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The fact you think African Muslims are somehow less radical and that's supposed to influence the Arab Muslims to be less radical is hopeful at best.

If you don't have anything at all to support yourself, then why would I assume that you're stable? Or are you perhaps trying to see how much I wobble?

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The fact you think African Muslims are somehow less radical and that's supposed to influence the Arab Muslims to be less radical is hopeful at best.

If you don't have anything at all to support yourself, then why would I assume that you're stable? Or are you perhaps trying to see how much I wobble?

If you only want to talk to Meta then I'll stop replying, but I'm just asking you to rethink how realistic your solution is.

I'd say the same to you.

The fact you think African Muslims are somehow less radical and that's supposed to influence the Arab Muslims to be less radical is hopeful at best.

If you don't have anything at all to support yourself, then why would I assume that you're stable? Or are you perhaps trying to see how much I wobble?

If you only want to talk to Meta then I'll stop replying, but I'm just asking you to rethink how realistic your solution is.

It's much better than your "bombing" one, that's for sure.

I'm willing to agree that I'm a stupid piece of shit, but then you'd have better come up with a solution much better than mine, that doesn't include the elements that my plan has, yet takes into consideration the points that I've made.

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My idea? My idea is to get Muslim immigrants from Africa, and other countries so that their religion is the focus, and not the social circles and such. Imagine how different people with the same belief would talk to each other; imagine how issues would be handled, and imagine how the new generation would be able to choose not only from the two options that are Moslim or not, but actual Muslim beliefs and POV on issues as there's sure to be many POV. Imagine the option of a good-by-heart Muslim being brought in.

I'd rather not have the Muslims in Africa radicalised, too, looking at the state of the Christians in the CAR.

Although, in saying that, it was in response to a Muslim president who wanted to impose Sharia Law, and was effectively in bed with the Saudis.

My idea? My idea is to get Muslim immigrants from Africa, and other countries so that their religion is the focus, and not the social circles and such. Imagine how different people with the same belief would talk to each other; imagine how issues would be handled, and imagine how the new generation would be able to choose not only from the two options that are Moslim or not, but actual Muslim beliefs and POV on issues as there's sure to be many POV. Imagine the option of a good-by-heart Muslim being brought in.

I'd rather not have the Muslims in Africa radicalised, too, looking at the state of the Christians in the CAR.

Although, in saying that, it was in response to a Muslim president who wanted to impose Sharia Law, and was effectively in bed with the Saudis.

Read the edit.

Read the edit.

It still looks optimistic, to me. A lot of the time, you simply can't reason with these people. What they really need is a liberal revolution from within, as well as proper political infrastructure to maintain and facilitate education in countries like Indonesia and the Arab States - although given the dire situations of pretty much every single government ruling over a Muslim nation, I don't expect this anytime soon.

And clearly, neither liberalism nor education is enough to safeguard the foundations of civilisation. I can think of nothing more than to dig our boots in, take it in our stride and just work our way to the end, it will be, inevitably, a war of attrition. There are more of us than there are of them, we are smarter and their ideology is fundamentally unstable and capricious.

We will win, of that I'm sure.

Read the edit.

It still looks optimistic, to me. A lot of the time, you simply can't reason with these people. What they really need is a liberal revolution from within, as well as proper political infrastructure to maintain and facilitate education in countries like Indonesia and the Arab States - although given the dire situations of pretty much every single government ruling over a Muslim nation, I don't expect this anytime soon.

And clearly, neither liberalism nor education is enough to safeguard the foundations of civilisation. I can think of nothing more than to dig our boots in, take it in our stride and just work our way to the end, it will be, inevitably, a war of attrition. There are more of us than there are of them, we are smarter and their ideology is fundamentally unstable and capricious.

We will win, of that I'm sure.

They are humans, y'know.

They are humans, y'know.

Unfortunately.