To be “close-minded” is, according to the dictionary, to be “intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.” To be conservative and close-minded, according to popular portrayal, is a redundancy—a package deal that liberals can and do take for granted.But University of Virginia Professor Jonathan Haidt’s new book The Righteous Mind doesn’t simply suggest that conservatives may not be as close-minded as they are portrayed. It proves that the opposite is the case, that conservatives understand their ideological opposite numbers far better than do liberals.Haidt’s research asks individuals to answer questionnaires regarding their core moral beliefs—what sorts of values they consider sacred, which they would compromise on, and how much it would take to get them to make those compromises. By themselves, these exercises are interesting. (Try them online and see where you come out.)But Haidt’s research went one step further, asking self-indentified conservatives to answer those questionnaires as if they were liberals and for liberals to do the opposite. What Haidt found is that conservatives understand liberals’ moral values better than liberals understand where conservatives are coming from. Worse yet, liberals don’t know what they don’t know; they don’t understand how limited their knowledge of conservative values is. If anyone is close-minded here it’s not conservatives.Haidt has a theory regarding why this is the case, based on the idea that conservatives speak a broader and more encompassing language of six moral values while liberals embrace three of the six in a narrow set of core values. I see nothing wrong with this explanation.But let me present a complementary, more practical explanation: If you’re a conservative who lives in a major metropolitan area or who simply reads the New York Times, you get used to being outnumbered by liberals. Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.Most conservatives, most of the time, choose the latter. That is, they stay in the closet to avoid being accused of hating the poor, gays, or polar bears. As a result, liberals aren’t gaining any commensurate information. In fact, the silence of their conservative friends helps reinforce their views. Much of the time, liberals’ views of conservative positions and values are simply a caricature that bear little resemblance to what conservatives actually think and, more importantly, why they think it.But during that time when conservatives’ mouths are shut, their ears are open. They’re listening and understanding what liberals think—and what liberals think of them. Conservatives understand their own world—whether it’s of religious organizations, talk radio, Fox News, or whatever—along with the New York Times, network news world of liberals.That helps explain why a conservative’s reaction to a liberal critique often isn’t “you’re wrong.” It’s “you don’t even know what I’m trying to say.” Haidt’s research seems to show that this reaction is warranted.
That helps explain why a conservative’s reaction to a liberal critique often isn’t “you’re wrong.” It’s “you don’t even know what I’m trying to say.”
Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.Most conservatives, most of the time, choose the latter. That is, they stay in the closet to avoid being accused of hating the poor, gays, or polar bears. As a result, liberals aren’t gaining any commensurate information. In fact, the silence of their conservative friends helps reinforce their views. Much of the time, liberals’ views of conservative positions and values are simply a caricature that bear little resemblance to what conservatives actually think and, more importantly, why they think it.
Just out of curiosity. What kind of conservatives and liberals?
QuoteBut let me present a complementary, more practical explanation: If you’re a conservative who lives in a major metropolitan area or who simply reads the New York Times, you get used to being outnumbered by liberals. Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.Cry more Mr P, voicing opinions freely on this board is healthy.
But let me present a complementary, more practical explanation: If you’re a conservative who lives in a major metropolitan area or who simply reads the New York Times, you get used to being outnumbered by liberals. Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.
Quote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 07:04:01 AMQuoteBut let me present a complementary, more practical explanation: If you’re a conservative who lives in a major metropolitan area or who simply reads the New York Times, you get used to being outnumbered by liberals. Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.Cry more Mr P, voicing opinions freely on this board is healthy.And do I stop you from doing so?Or do I just kick some of your worst bait threads into the flood now and then?
What Haidt found is that conservatives understand liberals’ moral values better than liberals understand where conservatives are coming from
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 10:37:21 AMQuote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 07:04:01 AMQuoteBut let me present a complementary, more practical explanation: If you’re a conservative who lives in a major metropolitan area or who simply reads the New York Times, you get used to being outnumbered by liberals. Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.Cry more Mr P, voicing opinions freely on this board is healthy.And do I stop you from doing so?Or do I just kick some of your worst bait threads into the flood now and then?Bait and playing another side of the argument is not ambiguous.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:18:38 PMQuote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 06:13:29 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 10:37:21 AMQuote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 07:04:01 AMQuoteBut let me present a complementary, more practical explanation: If you’re a conservative who lives in a major metropolitan area or who simply reads the New York Times, you get used to being outnumbered by liberals. Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.Cry more Mr P, voicing opinions freely on this board is healthy.And do I stop you from doing so?Or do I just kick some of your worst bait threads into the flood now and then?Bait and playing another side of the argument is not ambiguous.If you want to play devils advocate, then at least make that clear. Leaping from SJW to bible thumper in the blink of an eye makes it seem like bait.Bait is literally any kind of content of opinion that offends people. If it's politically oriented and non-harassing it shouldn't be removed. When you filter out opinions you're just making everyone dumber.
Quote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 06:13:29 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 10:37:21 AMQuote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 07:04:01 AMQuoteBut let me present a complementary, more practical explanation: If you’re a conservative who lives in a major metropolitan area or who simply reads the New York Times, you get used to being outnumbered by liberals. Liberals, by contrast, get used to being surrounded by other liberals, both in person and in culture and the media. As a result, liberals speak their minds freely, often in ways that are harshly condemnatory of conservatives and their stands on issues. As a conservative, you can defend your values against friends and acquaintances who essentially just called you stupid and evil or you can keep quiet.Cry more Mr P, voicing opinions freely on this board is healthy.And do I stop you from doing so?Or do I just kick some of your worst bait threads into the flood now and then?Bait and playing another side of the argument is not ambiguous.If you want to play devils advocate, then at least make that clear. Leaping from SJW to bible thumper in the blink of an eye makes it seem like bait.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:33:16 PMA controversial political opinion = Fine'Lets kill all the gays' = Not for the serious boardI haven't actually kicked any of your threads out of serious for a while now, so this just seems like you being contrary for the sake of it.But why couldn't we have a discussion on it? I could certainly make some arguments for that.
A controversial political opinion = Fine'Lets kill all the gays' = Not for the serious boardI haven't actually kicked any of your threads out of serious for a while now, so this just seems like you being contrary for the sake of it.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:40:34 PMQuote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 06:35:09 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:33:16 PMA controversial political opinion = Fine'Lets kill all the gays' = Not for the serious boardI haven't actually kicked any of your threads out of serious for a while now, so this just seems like you being contrary for the sake of it.But why couldn't we have a discussion on it? I could certainly make some arguments for that.You can, just not in the serious board.You can't give me a good reason other than you want to limit speech in favor of your feelings.
Quote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 06:35:09 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:33:16 PMA controversial political opinion = Fine'Lets kill all the gays' = Not for the serious boardI haven't actually kicked any of your threads out of serious for a while now, so this just seems like you being contrary for the sake of it.But why couldn't we have a discussion on it? I could certainly make some arguments for that.You can, just not in the serious board.
Quote from: Icy on January 22, 2015, 07:04:31 PMQuote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 06:35:09 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:33:16 PMA controversial political opinion = Fine'Lets kill all the gays' = Not for the serious boardI haven't actually kicked any of your threads out of serious for a while now, so this just seems like you being contrary for the sake of it.But why couldn't we have a discussion on it? I could certainly make some arguments for that.Good for you. Go do it in your own thread in The Flood. Sexuality threads, outside of legality for marriage and such, go there anyway now.For the next two weeks. The way the staff handles this forum is going to bring it to its collapse.
Quote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 06:35:09 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:33:16 PMA controversial political opinion = Fine'Lets kill all the gays' = Not for the serious boardI haven't actually kicked any of your threads out of serious for a while now, so this just seems like you being contrary for the sake of it.But why couldn't we have a discussion on it? I could certainly make some arguments for that.Good for you. Go do it in your own thread in The Flood. Sexuality threads, outside of legality for marriage and such, go there anyway now.
Quote from: Icy on January 22, 2015, 07:04:31 PMQuote from: Dustin' on January 22, 2015, 06:35:09 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on January 22, 2015, 06:33:16 PMA controversial political opinion = Fine'Lets kill all the gays' = Not for the serious boardI haven't actually kicked any of your threads out of serious for a while now, so this just seems like you being contrary for the sake of it.But why couldn't we have a discussion on it? I could certainly make some arguments for that.Good for you. Go do it in your own thread in The Flood. Sexuality threads, outside of legality for marriage and such, go there anyway now.For the next two weeks.