The lesbian parents of an 11-year-old boy who is undergoing the process of becoming a girl last night defended the decision, claiming it was better for a child to have a sex change when young.Thomas Lobel, who now calls himself Tammy, is undergoing controversial hormone blocking treatment in Berkeley, California to stop him going through puberty as a boy.But Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel warn that children with gender identity disorder forced to postpone transitioning could face a higher risk of suicide.The mothers say that one of the first things Thomas told them when he learned sign language aged three - because of a speech impediment - was, 'I am a girl'.At age seven, after threatening genital mutilation on himself, psychiatrists diagnosed Thomas with gender identity disorder. By the age of eight, he began transitioning.This summer, he started taking hormone-blocking drugs, which will stop him from experiencing puberty.The hormone-suppressant, implanted in his upper left arm, will postpone the 11-year-old developing broad shoulders, deep voice and facial hair.The couple faced intense criticism from friends and family as a result, Ms Moreno told MailOnline.'Everybody was angry with us. "How could you be doing this? You might be ruining his whole life!"Citing a statistic from the Youth Suicide Prevention Program, Ms Moreno noted over 50 per cent of transgender youth will have had at least one suicide attempt by their 20th birthday.
UPDATED: 06:04 EST, 30 September 2011
First of all:QuoteUPDATED: 06:04 EST, 30 September 2011And the article just says the kid will start hormone blockers to delay puberty.
Quote from: Cheat on February 24, 2015, 01:10:58 AMFirst of all:QuoteUPDATED: 06:04 EST, 30 September 2011And the article just says the kid will start hormone blockers to delay puberty.1, I said idc if it's old. It has a potentially good debate about ages of consent for something so major.2, yes, skirt the issue by brushing it off with just some hormone blockers. Yeah, those aren't a big deal, they only block your body's natural hormonal development.
Quote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 12:46:08 AMhow can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all?1. They're hormone blockers. It's not a sex change operation or HRT treatment. They're not "changing his gender", it's simply postponing the development of masculine features.2. "Force"? The kid has been diagnosed with GID by a psychiatrist and has spent pretty much his entire life identifying as a girl, even to the point of threatening with genital mutilation. If anything, these parents gave in to him.QuoteThis could potentially ruin his entire lifeOr, probably more likely, this could improve his entire life and not force the kid into a very likely depression and struggles with his identity for the rest of his life. Quoteand should be considered child abuse.Lolno. QuoteGender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age,Again, this isn't gender transitioning or change. Quotenot a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something.Yeah, I can see how a child being diagnosed with GID by a professional and spending more than half his life wanting to be a girl to the point of coming close to cutting his own genitals off is totally a "whim decision". Really? QuoteThese parents are terrible people.I'd argue the opposite, actually.
how can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all?
This could potentially ruin his entire life
and should be considered child abuse.
Gender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age,
not a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something.
These parents are terrible people.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on February 24, 2015, 06:53:02 AMQuote from: Flee on February 24, 2015, 04:40:45 AMQuote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 12:46:08 AMhow can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all?1. They're hormone blockers. It's not a sex change operation or HRT treatment. They're not "changing his gender", it's simply postponing the development of masculine features.2. "Force"? The kid has been diagnosed with GID by a psychiatrist and has spent pretty much his entire life identifying as a girl, even to the point of threatening with genital mutilation. If anything, these parents gave in to him.QuoteThis could potentially ruin his entire lifeOr, probably more likely, this could improve his entire life and not force the kid into a very likely depression and struggles with his identity for the rest of his life. Quoteand should be considered child abuse.Lolno. QuoteGender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age,Again, this isn't gender transitioning or change. Quotenot a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something.Yeah, I can see how a child being diagnosed with GID by a professional and spending more than half his life wanting to be a girl to the point of coming close to cutting his own genitals off is totally a "whim decision". Really? QuoteThese parents are terrible people.I'd argue the opposite, actually.I don't necessarily disagree with your stance, but I'd just like to point out that there are a lot of conflicting studies as to what causes suicide and depression amongst transgender individuals. Some studies suggest that surgery and conformity to the gender they identify with is the best way to tackle gender dysphoria and disorders, others like John Hopkins Hospital suggest that surgery increases the likeliness of suicide. There is no black and white answers.All in all, I don't think you or the parents in question are entirely incorrect, but there's some significant nuances you're missing out here.The one thing you're missing is that there's no surgery here. They're hormone blockers. They stop the body from going through near irreversible changes during puberty, while leaving the possibility of reversing this later if the person so wishes. I'm not seeing the problem with giving a child that clearly has GID the chance to hold off on becoming more masculine during the most uncomfortable years of one's life. If this was an 8 year old having a sex change surgery or hormone / HRT treatment, then I'd agree with you. But this is a pretty different scenario.
Quote from: Flee on February 24, 2015, 04:40:45 AMQuote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 12:46:08 AMhow can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all?1. They're hormone blockers. It's not a sex change operation or HRT treatment. They're not "changing his gender", it's simply postponing the development of masculine features.2. "Force"? The kid has been diagnosed with GID by a psychiatrist and has spent pretty much his entire life identifying as a girl, even to the point of threatening with genital mutilation. If anything, these parents gave in to him.QuoteThis could potentially ruin his entire lifeOr, probably more likely, this could improve his entire life and not force the kid into a very likely depression and struggles with his identity for the rest of his life. Quoteand should be considered child abuse.Lolno. QuoteGender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age,Again, this isn't gender transitioning or change. Quotenot a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something.Yeah, I can see how a child being diagnosed with GID by a professional and spending more than half his life wanting to be a girl to the point of coming close to cutting his own genitals off is totally a "whim decision". Really? QuoteThese parents are terrible people.I'd argue the opposite, actually.I don't necessarily disagree with your stance, but I'd just like to point out that there are a lot of conflicting studies as to what causes suicide and depression amongst transgender individuals. Some studies suggest that surgery and conformity to the gender they identify with is the best way to tackle gender dysphoria and disorders, others like John Hopkins Hospital suggest that surgery increases the likeliness of suicide. There is no black and white answers.All in all, I don't think you or the parents in question are entirely incorrect, but there's some significant nuances you're missing out here.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on February 24, 2015, 10:34:16 AMBut the article clearly states this is the precedent for a sex change, which I assume involves surgery of some kind.A sex change that might take place years later and isn't a necessary consequence of hormone blockers. Kid is happy with his choice? Few years down the line, he gets a sex change done and will be a lot more feminine and happy with his body than someone who waited until they were 16-18 before trying to reverse what puberty did to them.Kid isn't happy with his choice? They stop the hormone treatment and give him testosterone supplements which will let his body mature naturally.
But the article clearly states this is the precedent for a sex change, which I assume involves surgery of some kind.
"My son who is now all boy used to like to wear my shoes & clothes when he was a preschooler. He also like to play with baby dolls & use his pretend kitchen. I guess if I were these parents I would have ran out to buy him girl clothing & tell everyone he thought he was a girl. Sorry. I agree with supporting a teen or pre-teen, but these women are cruel."
Quote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 12:46:08 AMThe article continues, but why. Holy shit, how can this actually be possible? This poor boy hasn't even hit puberty yet, how can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all? This could potentially ruin his entire life and should be considered child abuse. Gender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age, not a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something. These parents are terrible people.Discuss.I have to assume you are either trolling, or are just really ignorant on the subject of gender identity.
The article continues, but why. Holy shit, how can this actually be possible? This poor boy hasn't even hit puberty yet, how can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all? This could potentially ruin his entire life and should be considered child abuse. Gender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age, not a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something. These parents are terrible people.Discuss.
Quote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 01:44:44 PMQuote from: Noëlle on February 24, 2015, 01:40:39 PMQuote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 12:46:08 AMThe article continues, but why. Holy shit, how can this actually be possible? This poor boy hasn't even hit puberty yet, how can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all? This could potentially ruin his entire life and should be considered child abuse. Gender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age, not a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something. These parents are terrible people.Discuss.I have to assume you are either trolling, or are just really ignorant on the subject of gender identity.Refer to my above posts. I don't have an issue with someone of the right age and understanding undertaking such a procedure, but this kid is 8. This is jumping the gun on something he more than likely doesn't even understand. Should I have started undergoing the same procedures because I wore my mother's heels while being a little goofy child?Ignorant on the subject of gender identity, as I said.What the hell are they jumping the gun on? They are giving the child hormone blockers because they expressed gender issues and have seen psychiatrists who believe this is the right treatment. Hormone blockers, they block testosterone so the child does not develop masculine features immediately. If the blockers are stopped, then they would go through puberty as they normally would. Blocking puberty is a really fucking good thing for transgender people who do not want to deal with that shit. Someone cannot be on hrt until they are thirteen I believe, and you cannot receive sexual reassignment surgery until you are eighteen. A lot of transgender people have poor quality of life because they could not start these things at a younger age, and a lot of them are in states of depression so severe that they attempt suicide, and that was me in the past as well. If you are becoming an EMT, I would assume you care about people, so why would you be against the parents and the doctors here trying to improve this child's life?
Quote from: Noëlle on February 24, 2015, 01:40:39 PMQuote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 12:46:08 AMThe article continues, but why. Holy shit, how can this actually be possible? This poor boy hasn't even hit puberty yet, how can they force him to change his gender when he likely doesn't even comprehend sexuality yet at all? This could potentially ruin his entire life and should be considered child abuse. Gender transition/change should only be allowed for an individual once they are capable of total understanding of it and are legal in age, not a whim decision because he's worn women's clothes or something. These parents are terrible people.Discuss.I have to assume you are either trolling, or are just really ignorant on the subject of gender identity.Refer to my above posts. I don't have an issue with someone of the right age and understanding undertaking such a procedure, but this kid is 8. This is jumping the gun on something he more than likely doesn't even understand. Should I have started undergoing the same procedures because I wore my mother's heels while being a little goofy child?
Quote from: aTALLmidget on February 24, 2015, 02:03:08 PMWhat, they think the actions of a child at such a young age denote that they have gender dysphoria? This isn't ignorance of gender identity - this is an issue about consenting to these procedures. Also, a good question is how did these psychiatrists come to the conclusion of gender dysphoria? These parents started this idea of their kid having a gender identity issue at the age of 3, 3. What the hell does a kid know at 3? They all say and do things they don't mean or have wild imaginations. How can this be appropriate when at such a young age children are prone to doing such things? He's 8 and can't understand these ramifications. Like I said, once he reaches an age where he can fully comprehend everything behind this and still feels a need to begin change, then so be it. But not at such a young age. Also, don't straw man me with a loaded question like that. Whether or not this actually "improves" his life is up for debate. Don't make it out that I'm trying to impede on his well being, I'm only advocating the choice should be his at a proper time where he can understand it fully.Ignorance of gender identity is not an argument. You are completely ignorant on the subject, that is what you are showing me. Those psychiatrists know a hell of a lot more about the subject than you do, it is why they are in that career field. This is also an issue I have dealt with in my life. Children do behave differently when they do have actual gender dysphoria issues, even at a young age. You say kids have wild imaginations, that is very true. Kids suffering from actual gender dysphoria will show different signs though, that it is an actual issue and not just a wild imagination. Not trying to be a bitch, but treatment for transgender individuals should not be withheld or delayed just because you think it is wrong in your world. In reality, those people need treatment as soon as they are able to receive it, just like any other medical condition. My last question was not a loaded question. You are against the child's life being improved, that is what you are saying in this thread.
What, they think the actions of a child at such a young age denote that they have gender dysphoria? This isn't ignorance of gender identity - this is an issue about consenting to these procedures. Also, a good question is how did these psychiatrists come to the conclusion of gender dysphoria? These parents started this idea of their kid having a gender identity issue at the age of 3, 3. What the hell does a kid know at 3? They all say and do things they don't mean or have wild imaginations. How can this be appropriate when at such a young age children are prone to doing such things? He's 8 and can't understand these ramifications. Like I said, once he reaches an age where he can fully comprehend everything behind this and still feels a need to begin change, then so be it. But not at such a young age. Also, don't straw man me with a loaded question like that. Whether or not this actually "improves" his life is up for debate. Don't make it out that I'm trying to impede on his well being, I'm only advocating the choice should be his at a proper time where he can understand it fully.
There's only so much you can do with therapy though.
Lesbian parents start sex change for their 8 year old boy
