Considering that conservatives tend to have the most incorrect opinions ever when it comes to economics, I'm very disinclined to believe anything a conservative has to say (and that goes for any subject--but especially economics).

Literally what dude

Most conservatives and liberals don't have a fucking clue about economic policy. And I mean that literally; Republicans and Democrats, in aggregate, agree with each other more than they agree with economists. It's a function of people not having the time or the inclination to study a pretty complex subject, not a function of ideology.

Now, I'll grant you that elements of the American Right have some pretty horrible ideas: non-revenue neutral tax cuts, auditing the Fed, returning to the gold standard etc. But I'm pretty sure you'd agree Turkey isn't a moron, and probably doesn't belong to these more fringe elements of the Right; he's actually pretty centrist on economic issues.

All of this being said, simply being told that a conservative is peddling a myth is not a good enough reason to assume that they are. From your response to Turkey, you clearly don't know a terrible amount about the causes of the Great Depression. There's nothing wrong with this, of course, but there is something wrong with having such a low standard of credibility when you form opinions on important policy issues.

All you had to do was say "Do either of you have any evidence?", and even if neither of them did I would still be able to direct you to relevant research.

Come on man, you were being lazy.

Quote from: Удалить кебаб on November 14, 2016, 10:20:06 AM

elements of the American Right have some pretty horrible ideas...auditing the Fed

I don't see how that's a bad thing, the people responsible for printing America's currency should be held to high level of scrutiny.

Monetary policy functions well when independent; the Fed already has a high level of Congressional oversight. Increased meddling runs the risk of interest rates being set politically, instead of empirically.

Almost invariably, conservatives pushing the audit the Fed line are just goldbugs who don't have a fucking clue.

Fair enough, do you have any books/articles I could look into?

Too many.

What area specifically are you interested in?

All you had to do was say "Do either of you have any evidence?", and even if neither of them did I would still be able to direct you to relevant research.

You must have missed this post, then. I'm not directly asking for "evidence" here, but I am questioning Turkey's conclusions and implicitly requesting that he defend or support them (which he hasn't done--but he seems a little preoccupied with some litigation at the moment so I don't blame him).

Come on man, you were being lazy.

I admitted tacitly that I don't know a great deal about economics or history, but I've always been taught that the New Deal played overall to the country's benefit, salvaging us from the depression. When I'm told the exact opposite (as though it's common knowledge), it's not lazy for me to ask a few questions, which I did. When LC popped in and confirmed what I've always been taught, it reassured me that I've not gone batshit, hence my response--"Okay, that's what I've always thought."

There's a reason I tend to trust what little my history teachers have taught me--I assume good faith in my curriculum and understand that, even if what's being said to me isn't the whole truth, still serves as a good fundamental baseline for how I examine and consider the events of my country's history. You're basically claiming that I'm the victim of leftist indoctrination, and that the right totally doesn't just have some kind of persecution complex, where their revisionist ideas are summarily discarded--or "lazily ignored." Naturally, I won't be very receptive to that.

I'm just saying, I'm more inclined to believe what I've always believed and nothing has really been said thus far to shift my views. I'm not arguing with you--I just have a few questions.

Here was your response to LC:

If by "commonly agreed" you mean "shit we teach kids pre-college because we're too lazy to explain it properly" then yeah the New Deal was pretty important. If we're talking about actual empirical work, instead of what our teachers tell us, it becomes far less important.

This communicates to me a lot of mixed messages. You can't seem to decide whether the New Deal ultimately helped out or not. It either did or it didn't. Turkey's original claim was that it played to the country's detriment--exacerbating the depression--and I could've sworn you were on his side. But here, you're arguing that it was "pretty important," if only you look at the situation from a narrow scope, as opposed to looking at "actual empirical work."

But you see, at the end of the day, if it helped, then it helped--right?

So is your argument that some aspects of the New Deal worked out, but most of them didn't? That would make more sense--could you help me understand which aspects of the deal weren't as efficacious? LC sent me a few things to read, as well, so I'll be looking at this from both sides and forming my own conclusions, if you like.

Quote from: Удалить кебаб on November 14, 2016, 06:12:22 AM

Echo-esque

Say that out loud 3 times fast

Echo-esque, echo-exssfuck

Echo-esque, eckoses-damn it.

Echo-ekek -- fuck this.

One area I would distance myself from Turkey in is that he seems to think fiscal stimulus prolongs recessions; he said as much about the Obama stimulus.

I don't recall saying that. The New Deal was a failure largely because it lacked fiscal stimulus; it forced wages and prices to inflate during a depression -- something even an economic luddite would recognize as unwise.

Verb has more salt than the Pacific.

Maybe the reason why Verb is so anti-Trump is simply because he is secretly a Trump supporter. For example the people who are are strongly anti-gay end up being gay themselves. So for Verb it could be the same scenario.

I don't want shit to do with you if you don't hate Trump as much as I do.

Verb has more salt than the Pacific.

That's like saying the universe has more stars than a galaxy does. It's just a bit redundant.

I don't recall saying that.

I obviously could be wrong, but I have a vivid memory of you saying something along those lines. Like I say, though, could be wrong.

Quote from: Azendac on November 15, 2016, 06:55:57 PM

Just to let you know, I'm working on compiling a list for the areas you said you were interested in. Will post them as a separate thread.

Thank you kindly.

Quote from: Ian on November 15, 2016, 06:05:51 PM

Verb has more salt than the Pacific.

I found verb's twitter: