If the Earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old...

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 03:04:37 PM

Let us, for a moment, pretend that is true. Assuming there were two humans created to begin the human race, at what rate would they have to reproduce in order for there to be 7 billion people now?

Juuzou · September 07, 2014, 03:05:59 PM

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God · September 07, 2014, 04:23:47 PM

Lets see, the formula I know for population growth is (P(t1)-P(t2))/(P(t2), which would be (7,259,156,745 (at this moment) -2)/2 = 3629578372% increase.

Divide that by 10000 and you get a 362957% annual rate, or every woman having 725914 babies a year.

If evolution is true (where the populations of apes that gradually shifted into humanity lived in Africa since at least 2 million years ago), then the same calculation gives us a 1.8% average increase, slightly higher than today's.

Kinder Graham · September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/age_of_the_earth.html

The Bible makes NO mention that the earth is between 6,000-10,000 years old and people who believe it are complete idiots. People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons. Namely is that it's gone through multiple translations and changes, it's based on oral stories passed down, and written by humans and used only what they had knowledge of at the time

Now, if we're going to pretend the claim is true then it has to be taken that Adam and Eve had children after leaving the Garden of Eden and didn't have access to the amount of food, meaning breast feeding would happen longer. Because breast feeding is a natural type of birth control, pregnancy would occur less until agriculture was established which led to a surplus of food and the ability of young children to stop breast feeding at an early rate, causing for more pregnancies.

So it's very possible that the population could be the way it is, especially since later on in humanity people begin to have large families for many centuries up till the 20th century

More Than Mortal · September 07, 2014, 04:37:29 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/age_of_the_earth.html

The Bible makes NO mention that the earth is between 6,000-10,000 years old and people who believe it are complete idiots. People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons. Namely is that it's gone through multiple translations and changes, it's based on oral stories passed down, and written by humans and used only what they had knowledge of at the time

People should take the Bible seriously, let alone literally.

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM

People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.

But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?

More Than Mortal · September 07, 2014, 04:48:13 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.
But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?

True.

Religious people tend to make "better" citizens.

Just replace religion with culture. There you go.

Kinder Graham · September 07, 2014, 05:00:49 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.
But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?

Yeah, no

You don't need to conform your beliefs by reading a book. All you need to do to be Christian is to accept God and Jesus Christ as your savior, along with being a decent person and not purposely do bad things. I don't read the Bible, I don't go to church, and I don't pray as much but I know I'm still a Christian. All that stuff is just extra people think they need to do

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 05:06:52 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 05:00:49 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.
But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?
Yeah, no

You don't need to conform your beliefs by reading a book. All you need to do to be Christian is to accept God and Jesus Christ as your savior, along with being a decent person and not purposely do bad things. I don't read the Bible, I don't go to church, and I don't pray as much but I know I'm still a Christian. All that stuff is just extra people think they need to do

People wouldn't think God existed if the Bible didn't say so.

More Than Mortal · September 07, 2014, 06:18:47 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 05:06:52 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.
But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?
Yeah, no

You don't need to conform your beliefs by reading a book. All you need to do to be Christian is to accept God and Jesus Christ as your savior, along with being a decent person and not purposely do bad things. I don't read the Bible, I don't go to church, and I don't pray as much but I know I'm still a Christian. All that stuff is just extra people think they need to do
People wouldn't think God existed if the Bible didn't say so.

I have to disagree with you there.

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:18:47 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.
But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?
Yeah, no

You don't need to conform your beliefs by reading a book. All you need to do to be Christian is to accept God and Jesus Christ as your savior, along with being a decent person and not purposely do bad things. I don't read the Bible, I don't go to church, and I don't pray as much but I know I'm still a Christian. All that stuff is just extra people think they need to do
People wouldn't think God existed if the Bible didn't say so.
I have to disagree with you there.

Why's that?

I don't see why someone would organically [for lack of a better term] believe in the Christian God without exposure to the teachings of the Bible.

Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.

More Than Mortal · September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM

Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.

If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

Kinder Graham · September 07, 2014, 07:45:03 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 05:06:52 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.
But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?
Yeah, no

You don't need to conform your beliefs by reading a book. All you need to do to be Christian is to accept God and Jesus Christ as your savior, along with being a decent person and not purposely do bad things. I don't read the Bible, I don't go to church, and I don't pray as much but I know I'm still a Christian. All that stuff is just extra people think they need to do
People wouldn't think God existed if the Bible didn't say so.

Well the Bible, more or less the New Testament, wasn't written when Jesus lived nor was it written right after he died, instead was written around 100 A.D and there were plenty of Christians before the New Testament was ever established.

You're also forgetting that Jews believe in the same God as Christians, they just don't believe Jesus to be the Messiah (God's son/Human incarnation of God). It's the same with the Muslims. It's evident that people have held beliefs in God since 1300 B.C with the establishment of Judaism

What I'm saying is that it's not necessary to read the Bible nor do we need to take it with every grain of salt. Take the biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example, there's debate if they ever existed but it can inferred that the cities are metaphors used to represent vice and sodomy

Dustin · September 07, 2014, 07:49:09 PM

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Focnr · September 07, 2014, 07:50:23 PM

Like kinder said the Bible doesn't actually say that, it is assumed by a lot of people who didn't do proper research.

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 08:12:20 PM

Quote from: Focnr on September 07, 2014, 07:50:23 PM

Like kinder said the Bible doesn't actually say that, it is assumed by a lot of people who didn't do proper research.

Regardless of what the Bible does or does not say, people believe this to be true.

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 08:13:59 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 07:45:03 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 07, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
People should not take the Bible literally for a multitude of reasons.
But then wouldn't people stop believing in God?
Yeah, no

You don't need to conform your beliefs by reading a book. All you need to do to be Christian is to accept God and Jesus Christ as your savior, along with being a decent person and not purposely do bad things. I don't read the Bible, I don't go to church, and I don't pray as much but I know I'm still a Christian. All that stuff is just extra people think they need to do
People wouldn't think God existed if the Bible didn't say so.
Well the Bible, more or less the New Testament, wasn't written when Jesus lived nor was it written right after he died, instead was written around 100 A.D and there were plenty of Christians before the New Testament was ever established.

You're also forgetting that Jews believe in the same God as Christians, they just don't believe Jesus to be the Messiah (God's son/Human incarnation of God). It's the same with the Muslims. It's evident that people have held beliefs in God since 1300 B.C with the establishment of Judaism

What I'm saying is that it's not necessary to read the Bible nor do we need to take it with every grain of salt. Take the biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example, there's debate if they ever existed but it can inferred that the cities are metaphors used to represent vice and sodomy

But look at people like Native Americans. They didn't know about Jesus, God, or anyone from the Christian story until the white man showed up. I find it...implausible...that a group like the Native Americans would come to the same conclusion as Christians without the knowledge of the Bible.

Focnr · September 07, 2014, 08:24:57 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 08:12:20 PM

Quote from: Focnr on September 07, 2014, 07:50:23 PM
Like kinder said the Bible doesn't actually say that, it is assumed by a lot of people who didn't do proper research.
Regardless of what the Bible does or does not say, people believe this to be true.

Yeah, true.

DAS B00T x2 · September 07, 2014, 08:29:52 PM

Quote from: Focnr on September 07, 2014, 07:50:23 PM

Like kinder said the Bible doesn't actually say that, it is assumed by a lot of people who didn't do proper research.

But muh Ken ham

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 07, 2014, 08:31:46 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 07, 2014, 08:37:12 PM

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R o c k e t · September 07, 2014, 10:36:37 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.
If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

>implying God was invented

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 10:43:46 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:36:37 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.
If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

>implying God was invented

So why is your God the "real" one, and not the literally hundreds of other gods that people have believed in throughout history?

R o c k e t · September 07, 2014, 10:48:28 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:43:46 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.
If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

>implying God was invented
So why is your God the "real" one, and not the literally hundreds of other gods that people have believed in throughout history?

Because unlike Religions, I don't just worship my god, I fellowship with Him.
You can't have fellowship if there is only 1 person.

"Taste and see that the Lord is good."
Until you've done that, you'll never know what is true.

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 10:50:03 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:48:28 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:43:46 PM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.
If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

>implying God was invented
So why is your God the "real" one, and not the literally hundreds of other gods that people have believed in throughout history?
Because unlike Religions, I don't just worship my god, I fellowship with Him.
You can't have fellowship if there is only 1 person.

"Taste and see that the Lord is good."
Until you've done that, you'll never know what is true.

None of that really supports your argument.

R o c k e t · September 07, 2014, 10:55:12 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:50:03 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:48:28 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:43:46 PM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.
If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

>implying God was invented
So why is your God the "real" one, and not the literally hundreds of other gods that people have believed in throughout history?
Because unlike Religions, I don't just worship my god, I fellowship with Him.
You can't have fellowship if there is only 1 person.

"Taste and see that the Lord is good."
Until you've done that, you'll never know what is true.
None of that really supports your argument.

Yes it does.
Worshipping an image doesn't make it a God.

But if that image responds.....

I don't worship an image. I worship a God who has made Himself known in my life. You haven't experienced the same, and so you don't believe the same as me. That's fine.

But if you had, you wouldn't have a doubt in your mind that there is a God. He's made it blatantly obvious for me many times.

He has done what all other Gods have failed to do: respond

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 10:58:12 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:55:12 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:50:03 PM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:48:28 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:43:46 PM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.
If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

>implying God was invented
So why is your God the "real" one, and not the literally hundreds of other gods that people have believed in throughout history?
Because unlike Religions, I don't just worship my god, I fellowship with Him.
You can't have fellowship if there is only 1 person.

"Taste and see that the Lord is good."
Until you've done that, you'll never know what is true.
None of that really supports your argument.
Yes it does.
Worshipping an image doesn't make it a God.

But if that image responds.....

I don't worship an image. I worship a God who has made Himself known in my life. You haven't experienced the same, and so you don't believe the same as me. That's fine.

But if you had, you wouldn't have a doubt in your mind that there is a God. He's made it blatantly obvious for me many times.

He has done what all other Gods have failed to do: respond

..and your proof of communicating with God is...?

How do you know it's the Christian God? How do you know it isn't Ra the Sun God? Or Odin? Did they tell you who they were?

R o c k e t · September 07, 2014, 11:11:34 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:58:12 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:55:12 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:50:03 PM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:48:28 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 10:43:46 PM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 07, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
Yes, most cultures and groups have their own beliefs on deities and/or afterlife, but I'm talking specifically about the Christian God.
If we're talking specifically about the Abrahamic God, then yes I agree.

If we're assuming the Bible was never written, a very similar God would've likely developed in its stead. If the Bible were erased from history now, no other similar God would likely be invented.

>implying God was invented
So why is your God the "real" one, and not the literally hundreds of other gods that people have believed in throughout history?
Because unlike Religions, I don't just worship my god, I fellowship with Him.
You can't have fellowship if there is only 1 person.

"Taste and see that the Lord is good."
Until you've done that, you'll never know what is true.
None of that really supports your argument.
Yes it does.
Worshipping an image doesn't make it a God.

But if that image responds.....

I don't worship an image. I worship a God who has made Himself known in my life. You haven't experienced the same, and so you don't believe the same as me. That's fine.

But if you had, you wouldn't have a doubt in your mind that there is a God. He's made it blatantly obvious for me many times.

He has done what all other Gods have failed to do: respond
..and your proof of communicating with God is...?

How do you know it's the Christian God? How do you know it isn't Ra the Sun God? Or Odin? Did they tell you who they were?

You miss the point when it comes to God's existence: every time you ask for proof.
There isn't proof you will accept. Because proving God destroys faith, so realistically God wouldn't allow Himself to be proven to the world.

Now, since I have fellowshipped with God for around 6 years, I've got a really good look into His character.
The personality I've paid witness to; both physically and spiritually, lined up with the Characteristics of the Christian God.

For one: if you worship a non-existent God, it isn't going to grace you with it's prescence.
I have only worshipped Jesus, and He has never failed to respond.

When His Spirit came to me in my times of suffering, or simply a time of worship, I didn't feel shame.
I didn't feel disgusting or sinful or wrong, because when God Himself is in the room with you:
you, for a moment, completely forget about yourself.

Mad Max · September 07, 2014, 11:19:59 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 11:11:34 PM

Because proving God destroys faith

So then nobody can claim they know God exists. Because to know something such as "(x) exists" means to have some sort of proof or evidence.

R o c k e t · September 07, 2014, 11:32:28 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 07, 2014, 11:19:59 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on September 07, 2014, 11:11:34 PM
Because proving God destroys faith
So then nobody can claim they know God exists. Because to know something such as "(x) exists" means to have some sort of proof or evidence.

DANG you love to nitpick. did you read that whole post? Just curious.

Oh, they can claim all they want.
But if God is proven to exist, and it is completely and absolutely true, would you call believing in God "having faith" then? No. It would take ZERO faith to believe in a completely proven God.

There have to be questions, otherwise there is no faith.

We cannot prove God in that absolute way in nature. God is proven through your experiences.
Your circumstances.

Because that is what matters: not whether the sky is bluer today than it was yesterday, but what happens to you.
If you throw out circumstancial evidence, you will never find God. Because THAT is where He moves.

Notice how all my evidence of God, in 6 years, have been personal encounters He has had with either me or someone else?

God wants you to love Him for who He is, not serve Him because you know He is real.
He desires a personal relationship with you, if you are personal with someone they will affect your circumstances.

Spoiler

haven't we had this exact same conversation before? I believe you've asked these same questions before.