While other cities across America, including West Coast cities like Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Long Beach and San Diego have been adopting ordinances raising their local minimum wage — climbing toward a $15 per hour minimum wage by 2020 — Irvine is apparently America’s only major city headed in the other direction, actually cutting its minimum wage by more than 20%.Councilmember Christina Shea and Mayor Steven Choi have been leading the effort to repeal Irvine’s “Living Wage” law — now set at a minimum of about $11 per hour (or about $13 per hour for those not receiving health benefits or other job benefits). The practical effect of the Shea-Choi repeal proposal would be to allow the hourly wage paid to hundreds of low-income workers to fall to the state minimum wage of just $9 per hour.
Cost of living is going up
and wages are going down.
Irvine resident Gail Lewis, usually testifying as an animal welfare advocate, this time called on Councilmembers who “profess to be Christians” to ask themselves whether hurting the working poor is what Jesus would countenance.
Quote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 02:31:19 PMCost of living is going upBecause of the shortage of housing. Quoteand wages are going down.Slashing the minimum wage doesn't mean wages will go down.
lower the wage: people cant eat or live anyway
there's no shortage of housing here. there's fucktons of new houses and apartment buildings, both finished and being built, all over the city.
you think a company would willingly pay $11 when they only have to pay $9?
Quote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 02:37:00 PMthere's no shortage of housing here. there's fucktons of new houses and apartment buildings, both finished and being built, all over the city.Can't find any data on this at the moment, so I can't comment.
The astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?
Quote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.
Quote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:18:43 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.No, it wasn't magically overnight. Over the last 20 years home prices have skyrocketed because of the location and schools here. My parents bought their 4-bed, 4-bath, 3 car garage, and a tiny-ass <100sqft yard for $250,000 in 1994. Last year it was appraised for $1.4m and it isn't even that nice of a house, comparatively.It's a great investment for them, but you're fucked if you try to move here now.I coudln't comment on govt involvement,
Quote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:22:16 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:18:43 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.No, it wasn't magically overnight. Over the last 20 years home prices have skyrocketed because of the location and schools here. My parents bought their 4-bed, 4-bath, 3 car garage, and a tiny-ass <100sqft yard for $250,000 in 1994. Last year it was appraised for $1.4m and it isn't even that nice of a house, comparatively.It's a great investment for them, but you're fucked if you try to move here now.I coudln't comment on govt involvement,Shortages of housing seems more likely, then.Regardless, I don't think artificially raising the minimum wage is the most viable answer. All it really does is just pour salt on the wound at this point.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:29:22 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:22:16 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:18:43 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.No, it wasn't magically overnight. Over the last 20 years home prices have skyrocketed because of the location and schools here. My parents bought their 4-bed, 4-bath, 3 car garage, and a tiny-ass <100sqft yard for $250,000 in 1994. Last year it was appraised for $1.4m and it isn't even that nice of a house, comparatively.It's a great investment for them, but you're fucked if you try to move here now.I coudln't comment on govt involvement,Shortages of housing seems more likely, then.Regardless, I don't think artificially raising the minimum wage is the most viable answer. All it really does is just pour salt on the wound at this point.But why not raise the minimum wage? Cost of living is going up. Even if they stay at the same wage, it's worth less. Regular jobs get a cost of living increase of a couple % every year, why shouldn't minimum wage?
Quote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:50:44 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:29:22 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:22:16 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:18:43 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.No, it wasn't magically overnight. Over the last 20 years home prices have skyrocketed because of the location and schools here. My parents bought their 4-bed, 4-bath, 3 car garage, and a tiny-ass <100sqft yard for $250,000 in 1994. Last year it was appraised for $1.4m and it isn't even that nice of a house, comparatively.It's a great investment for them, but you're fucked if you try to move here now.I coudln't comment on govt involvement,Shortages of housing seems more likely, then.Regardless, I don't think artificially raising the minimum wage is the most viable answer. All it really does is just pour salt on the wound at this point.But why not raise the minimum wage? Cost of living is going up. Even if they stay at the same wage, it's worth less. Regular jobs get a cost of living increase of a couple % every year, why shouldn't minimum wage?Because, as I said, businesses need to compensate for the increase in expenses when minimum wage is increased, whether that be cutting down jobs (increasing unemployment), or raising the price of goods and services (increasing the cost of living).Raising the minimum wage is literally the worst solution I can think of when the cost of property is at an all time high.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 05:21:01 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:50:44 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:29:22 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:22:16 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:18:43 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.No, it wasn't magically overnight. Over the last 20 years home prices have skyrocketed because of the location and schools here. My parents bought their 4-bed, 4-bath, 3 car garage, and a tiny-ass <100sqft yard for $250,000 in 1994. Last year it was appraised for $1.4m and it isn't even that nice of a house, comparatively.It's a great investment for them, but you're fucked if you try to move here now.I coudln't comment on govt involvement,Shortages of housing seems more likely, then.Regardless, I don't think artificially raising the minimum wage is the most viable answer. All it really does is just pour salt on the wound at this point.But why not raise the minimum wage? Cost of living is going up. Even if they stay at the same wage, it's worth less. Regular jobs get a cost of living increase of a couple % every year, why shouldn't minimum wage?Because, as I said, businesses need to compensate for the increase in expenses when minimum wage is increased, whether that be cutting down jobs (increasing unemployment), or raising the price of goods and services (increasing the cost of living).Raising the minimum wage is literally the worst solution I can think of when the cost of property is at an all time high.but keeping minimum wage at $X wont keep costs from rising, businesses will do that anyway. How are these people supposed to participate in the marketplace when they can't put a roof over their head? The economy thrives when more people participate in it.
Quote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 05:52:38 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 05:21:01 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:50:44 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:29:22 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:22:16 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:18:43 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.No, it wasn't magically overnight. Over the last 20 years home prices have skyrocketed because of the location and schools here. My parents bought their 4-bed, 4-bath, 3 car garage, and a tiny-ass <100sqft yard for $250,000 in 1994. Last year it was appraised for $1.4m and it isn't even that nice of a house, comparatively.It's a great investment for them, but you're fucked if you try to move here now.I coudln't comment on govt involvement,Shortages of housing seems more likely, then.Regardless, I don't think artificially raising the minimum wage is the most viable answer. All it really does is just pour salt on the wound at this point.But why not raise the minimum wage? Cost of living is going up. Even if they stay at the same wage, it's worth less. Regular jobs get a cost of living increase of a couple % every year, why shouldn't minimum wage?Because, as I said, businesses need to compensate for the increase in expenses when minimum wage is increased, whether that be cutting down jobs (increasing unemployment), or raising the price of goods and services (increasing the cost of living).Raising the minimum wage is literally the worst solution I can think of when the cost of property is at an all time high.but keeping minimum wage at $X wont keep costs from rising, businesses will do that anyway. How are these people supposed to participate in the marketplace when they can't put a roof over their head? The economy thrives when more people participate in it.That's the thing, I don't want to maintain wages at anything. Let the market fix the wages itself. Businesses will only reduce costs when necessary, such as an artificially altered wage.The Scandinavian countries are a prime example of this. Literally none have a fixed minimum wage and their cost of living is exemplary.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 06:01:45 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 05:52:38 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 05:21:01 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:50:44 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:29:22 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:22:16 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 04:18:43 PMQuote from: Mad Max on June 03, 2015, 04:14:45 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on June 03, 2015, 03:51:53 PMThe astronomical cost of living is precisely because of the minimum wage.BUT MUH GOODS AND SERVICES ARE 2 HIGHYeah no shit. You mandate companies to pay a required amount and they have to compensate all of the excess expense. Here's a novel concept. How about you let the market fix the wage rates so people aren't out of employment and paying $10 for a loaf of bread?Yeah, but not cost of living like this. The median income is just shy of $100,000 here. A 3-bedroom single family home is a million dollars. Even if minimum wage was $20, that wouldn't pay enough to live here. A minimum wage for $11 isn't what's hurting us.There's probably nuance as to why that is. I doubt the market magically came to the conclusion of a million dollars for a family home.Is government heavily involved in the housing scheme where you're from? Because I wouldn't be surprised if it was.No, it wasn't magically overnight. Over the last 20 years home prices have skyrocketed because of the location and schools here. My parents bought their 4-bed, 4-bath, 3 car garage, and a tiny-ass <100sqft yard for $250,000 in 1994. Last year it was appraised for $1.4m and it isn't even that nice of a house, comparatively.It's a great investment for them, but you're fucked if you try to move here now.I coudln't comment on govt involvement,Shortages of housing seems more likely, then.Regardless, I don't think artificially raising the minimum wage is the most viable answer. All it really does is just pour salt on the wound at this point.But why not raise the minimum wage? Cost of living is going up. Even if they stay at the same wage, it's worth less. Regular jobs get a cost of living increase of a couple % every year, why shouldn't minimum wage?Because, as I said, businesses need to compensate for the increase in expenses when minimum wage is increased, whether that be cutting down jobs (increasing unemployment), or raising the price of goods and services (increasing the cost of living).Raising the minimum wage is literally the worst solution I can think of when the cost of property is at an all time high.but keeping minimum wage at $X wont keep costs from rising, businesses will do that anyway. How are these people supposed to participate in the marketplace when they can't put a roof over their head? The economy thrives when more people participate in it.That's the thing, I don't want to maintain wages at anything. Let the market fix the wages itself. Businesses will only reduce costs when necessary, such as an artificially altered wage.The Scandinavian countries are a prime example of this. Literally none have a fixed minimum wage and their cost of living is exemplary.How would the market fix itself? Why would a company ever charge less for a good or service than they do now, when they could charge the same [or more] as wages go down in order to increase profit?
My city is meddling with the minimum wage
