If free will doesn't exist...

Verbatim · October 24, 2015, 09:44:02 AM

Quote from: Cindo on October 24, 2015, 02:15:19 AM

Determinism is some stupid shit tbh

Demonstrate how, oh wise one.

Verbatim · October 24, 2015, 09:44:58 AM

Quote from: Luciana on October 24, 2015, 02:42:57 AM

If we can come to the conclusion we have no free will

I think we have free will!

no offense

but that is a very base-level understanding of what free will is

free will is not only the ability to make choices--it is the ability to make choices independent of any and all metaphysical phenomena--that is to say, your mind is not influenced by anything--you are a totally free agent

to say that your actions are not influenced at all would be kinda silly, wouldn't it

Verbatim · October 24, 2015, 09:55:45 AM

it's been awhile since i actually had a real discussion about this with anybody, so i'm rather rusty on how to explain it, but i'll try my best

the way i see it, there are hard influences and there are soft influences:
- being forced to go into public school at age 6 by your parents is a hard influence
- eating a chocolate chip cookie at age 6 is a soft influence, because it determines your developed interest in chocolate confectionery--perhaps you wouldn't have eaten as many cookies in your life if you had not eaten the first at that age

the only difference between hard and soft influences, metaphysically, is that we are consciously aware of the hard influences--we can think about and recognize that this event will lead to a long chain reaction of events that will result in something

soft influences are more subtle, and we don't really think about them--but our lives are comprised almost entirely of these soft influences, so they are nonetheless highly impacting of our "destiny," as it were

Verbatim · October 24, 2015, 10:08:57 AM

but no, i'm just a contrarian; i don't actually believe a word i'm saying, ofc

Tsirist · October 24, 2015, 11:18:44 AM

Quote from: Cindo on October 24, 2015, 02:15:19 AM

Determinism is some stupid shit tbh

You literally can't avoid it. Free will cannot exist either, as far as we know.

Verbatim · October 24, 2015, 11:21:12 AM

She's just being a contrarian.

Tsirist · October 24, 2015, 11:30:58 AM

muh state machines

Winy · October 24, 2015, 11:49:34 AM

Quote from: Cindo on October 24, 2015, 02:15:19 AM

Determinism is some stupid shit tbh

No it ain't. It's probably true.

It's just useless to make arguments from it because it doesn't matter either way.

Turkey · October 24, 2015, 12:15:23 PM

Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 24, 2015, 02:54:35 AM

That's not giving an important philosophical question the total respect it deserves.

Sorry, I was pretty drunk. We've already talked about this at length, though.

eggsalad · October 24, 2015, 12:50:01 PM

That is precisely why a justice system seeks to rehabilitate, not torture. Any suffering imposed on someone is done to reshape them into something workable in society, in the ideal.

Risay117 · October 24, 2015, 01:37:32 PM

A philosophical argument a judicial argument it makes not.

Risay117 · October 24, 2015, 01:40:00 PM

Also it is ironic to see you discuss about how everything is predetermined without noticing this very topic is predestined and our decision and conversation is predestined.

Elai · October 24, 2015, 01:42:20 PM

Quote from: Risay117 on October 24, 2015, 01:40:00 PM

Also it is ironic to see you discuss about how everything is predetermined without noticing this very topic is predestined and our decision and conversation is predestined.

Who says I didn't notice? I just don't care as it makes no difference.

Risay117 · October 24, 2015, 01:45:14 PM

Quote from: Avant le Présent on October 24, 2015, 01:42:20 PM

Quote from: Risay117 on October 24, 2015, 01:40:00 PM
Also it is ironic to see you discuss about how everything is predetermined without noticing this very topic is predestined and our decision and conversation is predestined.

Who says I didn't notice? I just don't care as it makes no difference.

And you do not care as it was predestined for you that way. During the failing days of the Ottomon empire and throughout the Islamic world a term is used that signifies this belief. "If Allah wills it". Inshallah.

Doctor Doom · October 24, 2015, 01:56:55 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 24, 2015, 10:08:57 AM

but no, i'm just a contrarian; i don't actually believe a word i'm saying, ofc

You should forgive her. She was destined to say that.

Verbatim · October 24, 2015, 02:01:57 PM

Quote from: Spooky Scary Grunt on October 24, 2015, 01:56:55 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 24, 2015, 10:08:57 AM
but no, i'm just a contrarian; i don't actually believe a word i'm saying, ofc
You should forgive her. She was destined to say that.

i don't like the word "destiny" because it has connotations of justification and mysticism

like, just because something is ordained to happen doesn't mean it's right

and i think destiny sort of implies that there's a "plan" and that everything's gonna work out in the end

when in reality, it's just the laws of motion in effect--regardless of any "right" or "wrong" outcome

Korra · October 24, 2015, 02:04:46 PM

Greetings my fellow Gardens!

Doctor Doom · October 24, 2015, 02:05:28 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 24, 2015, 02:01:57 PM

Quote from: Spooky Scary Grunt on October 24, 2015, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on October 24, 2015, 10:08:57 AM
but no, i'm just a contrarian; i don't actually believe a word i'm saying, ofc
You should forgive her. She was destined to say that.
i don't like the word "destiny" because it has connotations of justification and mysticism

like, just because something is ordained to happen doesn't mean it's right

and i think destiny sort of implies that there's a "plan" and that everything's gonna work out in the end

when in reality, it's just the laws of motion in effect--regardless of any "right" or "wrong" outcome

You were destined to think that way.

Verbatim · October 24, 2015, 02:06:15 PM

Doctor Doom · October 24, 2015, 02:06:42 PM

Quote from: Korra on October 24, 2015, 02:04:46 PM

Greetings my fellow Gardens!

Destiny is destiny.

Korra · October 24, 2015, 02:07:25 PM

Quote from: Spooky Scary Grunt on October 24, 2015, 02:06:42 PM

Quote from: Korra on October 24, 2015, 02:04:46 PM
Greetings my fellow Gardens!

Destiny is destiny.

And we are here to defeat the Darkness!

It's our destiny!

rawr

Luciana · October 24, 2015, 02:51:24 PM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on October 24, 2015, 08:12:49 AM

Quote from: Luciana on October 24, 2015, 03:49:15 AM
Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 24, 2015, 02:55:07 AM
Quote from: Luciana on October 24, 2015, 02:42:57 AM
If we can come to the conclusion we have no free will

I think we have free will!
Free will != the ability to make choices.
What does != mean?

Some hip new term?
Well in programming it's the not operator. People use symbols online to convey logical points like "correlation =/= causation" is a popular one I seen. The way Meta used it likely it means "does not equal" or possibly "does not mean".

I know. I was being sarcastic

Luciana · October 24, 2015, 02:53:08 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 24, 2015, 09:44:58 AM

Quote from: Luciana on October 24, 2015, 02:42:57 AM
If we can come to the conclusion we have no free will

I think we have free will!
no offense

but that is a very base-level understanding of what free will is

free will is not only the ability to make choices--it is the ability to make choices independent of any and all metaphysical phenomena--that is to say, your mind is not influenced by anything--you are a totally free agent

to say that your actions are not influenced at all would be kinda silly, wouldn't it

What I said wasn't serious anyway. I won't pretend to know enough about the mind of the theories behind it to spew some pseudo knowledge (septagon should learn when to do that) on the issue.

I appreciate how you try hard not to insult me though c:

Luciana · October 24, 2015, 02:54:29 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 24, 2015, 02:01:57 PM

]i don't like the word "destiny"

lucky for you, 90% of us don't like the game of it either.

challengerX · October 24, 2015, 02:59:34 PM

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Doctor Doom · October 24, 2015, 03:00:21 PM

This thread was fated to be shitposted in.

Luciana · October 24, 2015, 03:12:09 PM

I apologize, I just wanted to be apart of the cool kids

Elai · October 24, 2015, 03:12:10 PM

Quote from: Luciana on October 24, 2015, 02:53:08 PM

spew some pseudo knowledge (septagon should learn when to do that) on the issue.

Pseudo-knowledge? It's better than not saying anything at all.

It's actual a huge problem I have with this site. If you make a thread saying "Can someone help me understand the feminism issue?" No one wants to help.

But if I made a thread titled, "Feminism is the true god" or some shit, you can bet your ass Mordo would be on that shit like a fly on shit.

See what I mean? Someone like me cannot do what he sets out to do (learn) on this site unless I take a definitive stance on things, because people only feel inclined to "prove me wrong" when I try to do the same.

It's off topic but I needed to be said.

/rant

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 24, 2015, 03:23:42 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Winy · October 24, 2015, 03:41:51 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 24, 2015, 03:23:42 PM

man arguing about philosophy is about one of the most useless things in the world considering its all pseudo and non empirical

How do you think people came up with laws and moral values.

They discussed the philosophical implications of them.