Just Verb Things (my philosophies)

Verbatim · January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM

Simple question inspired by the whole Fire Emblem debacle, which, if you're unfamiliar, I'll try to summarize:

In the new Fire Emblem game (which is a JRPG made by Nintendo, keep in mind), they've added this bizarre mini-game that allows you to go into an empty room with a partner love interest, and ogle them for awhile to boost your affection with them. Yes--you can caress them, rub their face, etc. and it's all done on the 3DS's touch screen. If you play your in-game cards right, you can even get yourself in a situation where you can fondle one of your in-game younger siblings.

I'm not joking.

It never quite reaches full on coitus, of course, but why this feature is in the game in the first place, I haven't the faintest fucking clue.

Like any rational person would, I find it creepy and disgusting. However, to the surprise of nobody, the game has been censored for its Western release, and honestly? I'm relieved. Good fucking riddance.

Is that the right attitude to have, though?

As far as I'm concerned, the game is now better. It's better because it's now bereft of an extremely disturbing feature that shouldn't have been in the game in the first place--but other babies feel differently. They cry censorship, and spout memes like, "if you don't like it, don't play it--or play it, but avoid the feature."

Playing it would require buying it. Buying it entails supporting the franchise. Supporting the franchise entails supporting the creepy touch-your-little-sister minigames.

But let's say for a minute that the game was objectively improved, for the sake of discussion. Without this feature, everyone--EVERYONE--likes the game better. Does that make the censorship okay? Video games, music, movies, etc. are all designed to be enjoyed (or at least, they should be) so it would be wise to want to appease the largest number of people possible.

Compromising your artistry sucks and all, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia, then I have very little sympathy for that.

challengerX · January 27, 2016, 07:10:37 AM

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DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM

, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,

but it doesn't.

Verbatim · January 27, 2016, 07:30:07 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM
, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,
but it doesn't.

But if it did?

DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 07:34:40 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:30:07 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM
, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,
but it doesn't.
But if it did?

So?

challengerX · January 27, 2016, 07:36:20 AM

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DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 07:36:58 AM

Quote from: challengerX on January 27, 2016, 07:36:20 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM
, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,
but it doesn't.
I don't want to have to pull this card but isn't there the slightest possibility you're biased on this particular subject?

Yeah, but so is Verb.

challengerX · January 27, 2016, 07:41:31 AM

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Verbatim · January 27, 2016, 07:44:38 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:34:40 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:30:07 AM
Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM
, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,
but it doesn't.
But if it did?
So?

That's the thread. It's safe to assume that you don't draw the line anywhere, right? All censorship is intrinsically bad, no matter what. Even if what is being censored is the most evil, vile, repugnant thing imaginable--you have no right to censor it. All right.

When I was younger, I used to watch this series of videos on YouTube where a bunch of dudes would microwave random stuff, just to see what happens. Dumb show, but the hosts were funny personalities, so I enjoyed it. However, they did choose to bleep out every instance of the word "fuck" and "shit" that they spoke.

This is where I was going through my "all censorship is bad" phase, too, so I asked them about it.

They explained to me that it had nothing to do with wanting to keep the children safe from their naughty language, or whatever. They simply thought the bleep noise sounded much funnier than the swear itself--so they used it to enhance the humor of the show.

I don't necessarily agree with that decision, even today, but here, we have an example of censorship where the creators themselves thought it improved upon their work. How do you feel about that?

DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 07:44:38 AM

Quote from: challengerX on January 27, 2016, 07:41:31 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:36:58 AM
Quote from: challengerX on January 27, 2016, 07:36:20 AM
Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM
, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,
but it doesn't.
I don't want to have to pull this card but isn't there the slightest possibility you're biased on this particular subject?
Yeah, but so is Verb.
But I'm not.

But what if you are?

challengerX · January 27, 2016, 07:45:58 AM

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DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 07:47:04 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:44:38 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:34:40 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:30:07 AM
Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM
, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,
but it doesn't.
But if it did?
So?
That's the thread. It's safe to assume that you don't draw the line anywhere, right? All censorship is intrinsically bad, no matter what. Even if what is being censored is the most evil, vile, repugnant thing imaginable--you have no right to censor it. All right.

When I was younger, I used to watch this series of videos on YouTube where a bunch of dudes would microwave random stuff, just to see what happens. Dumb show, but the hosts were funny personalities, so I enjoyed it. However, they did choose to bleep out every instance of the word "fuck" and "shit" that they spoke.

This is where I was going through my "all censorship is bad" phase, too, so I asked them about it.

They explained to me that it had nothing to do with wanting to keep the children safe from their naughty language, or whatever. They simply thought the bleep noise sounded much funnier than the swear itself--so they used it to enhance the humor of the show.

I don't necessarily agree with that decision, even today, but here, we have an example of censorship where the creators themselves thought it improved upon their work. How do you feel about that?

That's not something that I'd call censorship imposed by a third party.

We censor our own ideas and thoughts daily, both consciously and subconsciously.

DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 07:47:23 AM

Quote from: challengerX on January 27, 2016, 07:45:58 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:44:38 AM
Quote from: challengerX on January 27, 2016, 07:41:31 AM
Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:36:58 AM
Quote from: challengerX on January 27, 2016, 07:36:20 AM
Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 07:15:53 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:07:51 AM
, but frankly, if your artistry amounts to brash depictions of pedophilia,
but it doesn't.
I don't want to have to pull this card but isn't there the slightest possibility you're biased on this particular subject?
Yeah, but so is Verb.
But I'm not.
But what if you are?
Am I?

Are you?

Septy · January 27, 2016, 07:53:10 AM

It's completely opinion if it makes something better. When you censor something you aren't getting the whole package as the creators intended. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to be all for censorship, removing content from a game. But you are completely against modding because you aren't seeing the game as the creators intended?

Verbatim · January 27, 2016, 07:57:36 AM

Quote from: Septy on January 27, 2016, 07:53:10 AM

It's completely opinion if it makes something better.

Which is why I'm asking what if it made it objectively better, hypothetically.

Quote

When you censor something you aren't getting the whole package as the creators intended. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to be all for censorship, removing content from a game. But you are completely against modding because you aren't seeing the game as the creators intended?

If what the creator intends is objectively shit, then it's perfectly okay. Even to mod it.

Still doesn't mean I'd mod it, though.

Septy · January 27, 2016, 08:02:47 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:57:36 AM

Quote from: Septy on January 27, 2016, 07:53:10 AM
It's completely opinion if it makes something better.
Which is why I'm asking what if it made it objectively better, hypothetically.

Quote
When you censor something you aren't getting the whole package as the creators intended. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to be all for censorship, removing content from a game. But you are completely against modding because you aren't seeing the game as the creators intended?
If what the creator intends is objectively shit, then it's perfectly okay. Even to mod it.

Still doesn't mean I'd mod it, though.

Whether it's shit is up to the opinion of the player.

Funny how you change your opinion on modding only when it suits your opinions.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · January 27, 2016, 08:06:38 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:57:36 AM

objectively

DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 08:08:35 AM

Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:06:38 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:57:36 AM
objectively

God damn it Kupo don't start shitting up the thread.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · January 27, 2016, 08:13:36 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 08:08:35 AM

Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:06:38 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:57:36 AM
objectively

God damn it Kupo don't start shitting up the thread.

he already admitted this thread's a shitpost though

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:45:40 AM

I only said that because I knew it would trigger people.

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:53:10 AM

Damage control.

"I fell for an obvious Das-tier exaggeration."

DAS B00T x2 · January 27, 2016, 08:15:04 AM

Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:13:36 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:06:38 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:57:36 AM
objectively

God damn it Kupo don't start shitting up the thread.
he already admitted this thread's a shitpost though

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:53:10 AM
Damage control.

"I fell for an obvious Das-tier exaggeration."

But it's not. That thread is not this thread.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · January 27, 2016, 08:16:06 AM

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 08:15:04 AM

Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:13:36 AM
Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on January 27, 2016, 08:08:35 AM
Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:06:38 AM
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:57:36 AM
objectively

God damn it Kupo don't start shitting up the thread.
he already admitted this thread's a shitpost though

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 07:53:10 AM
Damage control.

"I fell for an obvious Das-tier exaggeration."
But it's not. That thread is not this thread.

he's making the same argument in both threads though

Ender · January 27, 2016, 08:18:59 AM

While that game sounds really weird, I still think censorship is bad.

Ender · January 27, 2016, 08:20:02 AM

I mean, if it's something like a gory or shocking video on the news or a video of a guy runing around streaking, then yeah, censor that stuff.

challengerX · January 27, 2016, 08:32:15 AM

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Verbatim · January 27, 2016, 08:54:36 AM

Quote from: Septy on January 27, 2016, 08:02:47 AM

Whether it's shit is up to the opinion of the player.

Do you know what "hypothetical" means?

Quote

Funny how you change your opinion on modding only when it suits your opinions.

...No fucking shit? Why wouldn't I?

Funny how you say that like it's an intelligent observation.

Verbatim · January 27, 2016, 08:55:39 AM

Quote from: Ender on January 27, 2016, 08:20:02 AM

I mean, if it's something like a gory or shocking video on the news or a video of a guy runing around streaking, then yeah, censor that stuff.

Why? Wouldn't that qualify as you being overly-sensitive?

Anonymous (User Deleted) · January 27, 2016, 08:56:53 AM

OT: Seriously though, I'm fine with something like the FE change, although I'd prefer an opt-in/out setting instead.

I don't like the thought of 'censorship is okay when something weirds me out', but this particular event seems like such a trivial issue, especially when there's much worse censorship going on in the world. And it's not like anybody forced Nintendo's hand, for one thing; they agreed to it.

I'm still a bit conflicted, though.

Super Irish · January 27, 2016, 09:00:56 AM

No.

Even if all you learn from the experience is "I should never do that" or "This is disgusting and I completely abhor it" then it's worth keeping it. I'm thinking along the lines of after the end of WWII, rather than having the horrors of the holocaust censored and hidden away from the German people, they were made to look at photos, or in some cases visit the camps IIRC to stop the inevitable holocaust deniers which are as a result in a very small minority. Same goes for shit like Mein Kampf. Don't have to like it or agree with it (and I'm fairly certain it couldn't be reprinted in Germany until recently), it's valuable for the understanding of a crazed lunatics ideals and how far he got with them by getting power.

In more recent times, using videos from heroin addicts have been used to deter people from taking such hardcore substances, and I would say the videos aren't of much value apart from that.

However, in this scenario I don't understand. I assume you will, or have already bought the game, a pre-censored version. Whether you feel better that you bought the censored version or not is irrelevant, you will still be feeding Nintendo the profits (and in fact, for less content - less shitty content, but still less while at the same retail price), so they can still use that money to do whatever, including adding more pervy aspects to future games. You want to make a point saying how much you don't like that feature? Write a complaint, boycott the company and wait. Asking for it to be censored is entitlement, but showing the company that their business direction is a bad one en masse is far more productive and beneficial result and requires a bit of effort.

Verbatim · January 27, 2016, 09:03:11 AM

Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:56:53 AM

I'd prefer an opt-in/out setting instead.

Well, I don't disagree, but that's a bit silly, too. The opt-in/op-out setting is simply making the choice not to use the creepy-ass feature. Or not purchasing the game.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · January 27, 2016, 09:07:20 AM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 27, 2016, 09:03:11 AM

Quote from: Poopo No Pico on January 27, 2016, 08:56:53 AM
I'd prefer an opt-in/out setting instead.
Well, I don't disagree, but that's a bit silly, too. The opt-in/op-out setting is simply making the choice not to use the creepy-ass feature. Or not purchasing the game.

Yeah, I think it should be a choice.