So what do you guys think about the whole H1-B workers taking IT jobs?

challengerX · February 05, 2015, 03:38:33 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · February 05, 2015, 03:39:54 PM

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More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 03:40:40 PM

Hey, wage competition. Consumers get a service for cheaper, and the labour of the (now) unemployed workers will get shifted to something more valuable.

challengerX · February 05, 2015, 03:41:51 PM

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challengerX · February 05, 2015, 03:45:28 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · February 05, 2015, 03:47:18 PM

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More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 03:47:52 PM

Quote from: challengerX on February 05, 2015, 03:45:28 PM

It's destroying our economy.

Obviously not:

If these workers end up in jobs which generate less value than their former jobs it I) doesn't negate the consumer surplus of the replacement labour and II) is actually indicative of structural, supply-side issues in the economy.

More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 03:48:48 PM

Quote from: TrussingDoor on February 05, 2015, 03:47:18 PM

Quote from: challengerX on February 05, 2015, 03:45:28 PM
I won't stand for this Darwinistic bullshit. It's destroying our economy.
It's the reason ours is the strongest.

Well, no, because it isn't Darwinistic.

Voluntary exchange is by definition win-win.

challengerX · February 05, 2015, 03:48:52 PM

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Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 05, 2015, 03:50:05 PM

Bullshit like this is why the IT industry is a crapshoot >.>

It's corporate greed at its finest. All I have to say is, well, you get what you pay for, as they're about to find out.

More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 03:50:17 PM

Quote from: challengerX on February 05, 2015, 03:48:52 PM

It's the reason our economy is FAILING

Since when?

Present me with a single shred of evidence which shows labour competition is destroying the economy.

More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 04:09:38 PM

By the way, it's a myth that American manufacturing has been destroyed by free trade. I mean, come on, it rose by like 40pc between 1994 and 2007.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · February 05, 2015, 04:18:35 PM

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challengerX · February 05, 2015, 04:23:12 PM

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More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 04:26:48 PM

Quote from: challengerX on February 05, 2015, 04:23:12 PM

>2010

Whoops. My bad, I completely forgot that all outsourcing of both manufacturing and services jobs has taken place in the last four years.

Quote

>"the economy isn't getting worse, look at this outdated chart"

I said the economy isn't getting worse as a result of outsourcing or internal labour competition, which the graph supports.

Quote

>"if the economy is getting worse, it's because it's in trouble"

No, I said if the economy is showing a disequilibrium in various sectors of employment there is most likely a supply-side issue causing it.

challengerX · February 05, 2015, 04:27:23 PM

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More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 04:28:22 PM

Quote from: challengerX on February 05, 2015, 04:27:23 PM

An increasing wage gap and more people under the poverty line is beneficial to the economy to you?

I said evidence, not assertions.

And evidence that, if those assertions are true, they're actually caused by labour competition. . .

Mad Max · February 05, 2015, 04:33:46 PM

*breathes deeply*

Ahhh. Capitalism.

More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 04:37:07 PM

Also, you have to show the amount of people below the poverty line has increased pro rata with the general population growth. A growing population will lead to more people below the poverty line because. . . Well, y'know, that's how counting works.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · February 05, 2015, 04:41:28 PM

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Mad Max · February 05, 2015, 04:42:41 PM

Quote from: TrussingDoor on February 05, 2015, 04:41:28 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 05, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
*breathes deeply*

Ahhh. Capitalism.
As opposed to?

Our capitalism is corrupted and diluted anyway. It's scary to imagine how our leaders could fuck up a different system.

I'm just saying that it's shitty, but a consequence of having a "free" market.

More Than Mortal · February 05, 2015, 04:45:15 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 05, 2015, 04:42:41 PM

I'm just saying that it's shitty, but a consequence of having a "free" market.

It really is only shit if you take a narrow, short-sighted view of the economy. Pretty much all of the literature I've seen points away from significant disadvantages arising from labour competition and outsourcing.

challengerX · February 05, 2015, 05:12:49 PM

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challengerX · February 05, 2015, 05:20:13 PM

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Statefarm · February 05, 2015, 05:23:48 PM

I believe it will ultimately lead to more Americans in better jobs.

The current US government fully supports this stuff so get used to it and learn how to survive. Not much else you can do.

challengerX · February 05, 2015, 05:30:26 PM

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Statefarm · February 05, 2015, 05:44:37 PM

Quote from: challengerX on February 05, 2015, 05:30:26 PM

Quote from: Statefarm on February 05, 2015, 05:23:48 PM
I believe it will ultimately lead to more Americans in better jobs.

The current US government fully supports this stuff so get used to it and learn how to survive. Not much else you can do.
IT jobs are bad now? People devote their life to this stuff.

IT isn't bad but it sounds like these people are over-qualified for their job. Find a job somewhere else. Form a union, refuse to teach the new employees. It's already obvious that the Indians aren't as skilled so they (the Americans) have the upper hand. Do whatever it takes to prevent this move by companies from being profitable.

It's just hard to find any solution out of this besides playing the system. Democrats love supporting this (including the head honcho)

Republicans may oppose less strict immigration but the businesses and people that fund them (and fund democrats) definitely want cheaper labor. You lose no matter what party you support.

It's all about money and if there is a cheaper alternative you're going to get replaced eventually. It's pointless to stop it. You can slow it, yes. But halting it only stops the economy from progressing.

Statefarm · February 05, 2015, 05:53:46 PM

Although I am still mad at the current system. It makes it appealing to lay off Americans and hire people like the Indians in OPs article. The visa workers are forced to stay with the company, so the corporation can make it impossible to compete with. This has to end. It's not capitalism, it's political manipulation.

But like I said. Good luck with that. Current politicians eat out of the palms of people who support the current programs.

Sprungli · February 05, 2015, 06:12:55 PM

We have a similar concept here in the UK, it's called EU immigration. Poles and Romanians come in, we pay them pennies to do our shitty jobs and then they go home with money for their families. Works for us, despite what UKIP would have you think.

More Than Mortal · February 06, 2015, 01:27:21 AM

It gets tiring to see people promote this sort of intuitive--but nonetheless false--economics.

In the same way removing barriers to capital and goods increases well, so would removing barriers to labour, by orders of magnitude which could literally double global GDP. Not only this, but decent levels of immigration help with the government's debt burden and, most importantly, there's probably no statistically significant effect on native wages, so any deficiency in creating jobs is a supply-side issue.

The only study I've seen which did find a statistically significant effect on wages was this one, but it's from 2009 so you probably won't like it. Despite this however, the effect measured is small, temporary and only impacts un- and semi-skilled service jobs.

But, you know, it's by no means solved and more recent studies have challenged the idea of significant wage compression.

Competition between labour is a good thing. The service sector of the American economy won't die out because of this, just as the manufacturing sector didn't.