Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PMThe problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.You act as if they're mutually exclusive. QuoteThis isn't even about ISIS,No, it isn't. Not sure why you assumed the guys were part of ISIS. Quoteit's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.Dying is a pretty big inconvenience.
The problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.
This isn't even about ISIS,
it's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.
Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:05:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PMThe problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.You act as if they're mutually exclusive. QuoteThis isn't even about ISIS,No, it isn't. Not sure why you assumed the guys were part of ISIS. Quoteit's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.Dying is a pretty big inconvenience.Ugh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person. And anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:05:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PMThe problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.You act as if they're mutually exclusive. QuoteThis isn't even about ISIS,No, it isn't. Not sure why you assumed the guys were part of ISIS. Quoteit's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.Dying is a pretty big inconvenience.Ugh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person. And anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Uh.What?IS has no capability whatsoever to take over the Middle East. Have you even been following recent events involving them?And IS is becoming an international thread because as their actual ability to take, hold, and govern land declines, they are putting more and more of their resources into foreign attacks. So they could be a very big international threat in the future.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMUgh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person.If I can go through the trouble of cutting down posts and organizing them on mobile you shouldn't be complaining. QuoteAnd anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Why the FUCK are you talking about ISIS as if they're the only group, or as if they're going to perform some sort of land invasion?Dude, the problem is some radicalized kid can blow himself up in a train. That's the danger.
Ugh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person.
And anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 06:10:37 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:05:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PMThe problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.You act as if they're mutually exclusive. QuoteThis isn't even about ISIS,No, it isn't. Not sure why you assumed the guys were part of ISIS. Quoteit's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.Dying is a pretty big inconvenience.Ugh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person. And anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Uh.What?IS has no capability whatsoever to take over the Middle East. Have you even been following recent events involving them?And IS is becoming an international thread because as their actual ability to take, hold, and govern land declines, they are putting more and more of their resources into foreign attacks. So they could be a very big international threat in the future.Yeah, which is why we should be putting our resources into that, not into blindly arresting peaceful protestors. The smart thing to do is to put heavy government surveillance around the ISIS apologists, catch them doing, you know, a crime...not arresting them simply for expressing their misguided view for a group.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:14:13 PMQuote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 06:10:37 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:05:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PMThe problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.You act as if they're mutually exclusive. QuoteThis isn't even about ISIS,No, it isn't. Not sure why you assumed the guys were part of ISIS. Quoteit's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.Dying is a pretty big inconvenience.Ugh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person. And anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Uh.What?IS has no capability whatsoever to take over the Middle East. Have you even been following recent events involving them?And IS is becoming an international thread because as their actual ability to take, hold, and govern land declines, they are putting more and more of their resources into foreign attacks. So they could be a very big international threat in the future.Yeah, which is why we should be putting our resources into that, not into blindly arresting peaceful protestors. The smart thing to do is to put heavy government surveillance around the ISIS apologists, catch them doing, you know, a crime...not arresting them simply for expressing their misguided view for a group.That's what they already do FFS. The only times they've been arresting them is if they are actually caught at the airport trying to join IS or trying to provide support to the group.
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 06:16:44 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:14:13 PMQuote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 06:10:37 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:05:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PMThe problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.You act as if they're mutually exclusive. QuoteThis isn't even about ISIS,No, it isn't. Not sure why you assumed the guys were part of ISIS. Quoteit's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.Dying is a pretty big inconvenience.Ugh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person. And anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Uh.What?IS has no capability whatsoever to take over the Middle East. Have you even been following recent events involving them?And IS is becoming an international thread because as their actual ability to take, hold, and govern land declines, they are putting more and more of their resources into foreign attacks. So they could be a very big international threat in the future.Yeah, which is why we should be putting our resources into that, not into blindly arresting peaceful protestors. The smart thing to do is to put heavy government surveillance around the ISIS apologists, catch them doing, you know, a crime...not arresting them simply for expressing their misguided view for a group.That's what they already do FFS. The only times they've been arresting them is if they are actually caught at the airport trying to join IS or trying to provide support to the group.I know, but you're talking about heavier restriction than that. What they already do now is perfect.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:18:38 PMQuote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 06:16:44 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:14:13 PMQuote from: Not Comms Officer on April 07, 2015, 06:10:37 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:05:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 05:52:22 PMThe problem with the people ITT is that they're turning an issue of morality into an issue of politics.You act as if they're mutually exclusive. QuoteThis isn't even about ISIS,No, it isn't. Not sure why you assumed the guys were part of ISIS. Quoteit's about the ideal of freedom of expression. The mere act of showing support for a group or idea, no matter how terrible that group or idea may be, is protected under the human code. Principles mean nothing if you're not willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient for you.Dying is a pretty big inconvenience.Ugh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person. And anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Uh.What?IS has no capability whatsoever to take over the Middle East. Have you even been following recent events involving them?And IS is becoming an international thread because as their actual ability to take, hold, and govern land declines, they are putting more and more of their resources into foreign attacks. So they could be a very big international threat in the future.Yeah, which is why we should be putting our resources into that, not into blindly arresting peaceful protestors. The smart thing to do is to put heavy government surveillance around the ISIS apologists, catch them doing, you know, a crime...not arresting them simply for expressing their misguided view for a group.That's what they already do FFS. The only times they've been arresting them is if they are actually caught at the airport trying to join IS or trying to provide support to the group.I know, but you're talking about heavier restriction than that. What they already do now is perfect.No I'm not. I'm talking about heavier restrictions on people preaching for death. They provide indirect support to the group. Peaceful protesters don't aid the group in any way, and they just make themselves look like asses.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:16:33 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:11:52 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMUgh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person.If I can go through the trouble of cutting down posts and organizing them on mobile you shouldn't be complaining. QuoteAnd anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Why the FUCK are you talking about ISIS as if they're the only group, or as if they're going to perform some sort of land invasion?Dude, the problem is some radicalized kid can blow himself up in a train. That's the danger.Yeah, which is an actual crime. Protesting isn't. Showing support for ISIS isn't.Again, what're we supposed to do? Handcuff bits and pieces of his body together after he commits an atrocity?QuoteLike I said to Comms, obviously people like that should be put on some kind of watchlist and monitored closely, but to make the act of showing support for a group in and of itself illegal undermines the point of even having a country.Except they're part of a terrorist group. They're terrorists.
Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:11:52 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:08:59 PMUgh, splitting my post up like that is so annoying, just type like a normal person.If I can go through the trouble of cutting down posts and organizing them on mobile you shouldn't be complaining. QuoteAnd anyway, if you seriously think that ISIS actually has the potential to be an international threat, you're buying into the story more than I thought. At this point, they're more than capable of taking over the Middle East, but the second they step into Russian, European, American, or pretty much any other territory, they're done. Your life is literally in no danger.Why the FUCK are you talking about ISIS as if they're the only group, or as if they're going to perform some sort of land invasion?Dude, the problem is some radicalized kid can blow himself up in a train. That's the danger.Yeah, which is an actual crime. Protesting isn't. Showing support for ISIS isn't.
Like I said to Comms, obviously people like that should be put on some kind of watchlist and monitored closely, but to make the act of showing support for a group in and of itself illegal undermines the point of even having a country.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:23:57 PMAs opposed to handcuffing people who've committed no crime? Sure.So? Using your words to say that you support a terrorist group isn't the same thing as being a part of it. I've literally reiterated that to you three times in this thread so far.And I'm saying we should stop them before they do something.
As opposed to handcuffing people who've committed no crime? Sure.So? Using your words to say that you support a terrorist group isn't the same thing as being a part of it. I've literally reiterated that to you three times in this thread so far.
The smart thing to do is to put heavy government surveillance around the ISIS apologists, catch them doing, you know, a crime...not arresting them simply for expressing their misguided view for a group.
obviously people like that should be put on some kind of watchlist and monitored closely
We just fundamentally disagree and aren't going to get anywhere with this.
Catch them how I'd they're about to blow themselves up?And you'd rather increased surveillance instead of discouraging hate speech? Come on.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:40:07 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:36:10 PMCatch them how I'd they're about to blow themselves up?And you'd rather increased surveillance instead of discouraging hate speech? Come on.It doesn't take a genius to know that there are steps and preparations you have to make to even get a homemade explosive. The FBI foils hundreds of threats a year based on that alone.And yes, even hate speech should be a protected tenet of any modern society. It's not a great aspect of humanity, but it would be even worse to physically arrest someone just for using words to express their opinions. I never said it shouldn't be discouraged. Freedom of expression is so much more important than complete privacy from the government.Well that's how you discourage. By not small wing them in mosques and the streets. They can do it on their garages if they want.
Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:36:10 PMCatch them how I'd they're about to blow themselves up?And you'd rather increased surveillance instead of discouraging hate speech? Come on.It doesn't take a genius to know that there are steps and preparations you have to make to even get a homemade explosive. The FBI foils hundreds of threats a year based on that alone.And yes, even hate speech should be a protected tenet of any modern society. It's not a great aspect of humanity, but it would be even worse to physically arrest someone just for using words to express their opinions. I never said it shouldn't be discouraged. Freedom of expression is so much more important than complete privacy from the government.
Quote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:51:07 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:43:32 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:40:07 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:36:10 PMCatch them how I'd they're about to blow themselves up?And you'd rather increased surveillance instead of discouraging hate speech? Come on.It doesn't take a genius to know that there are steps and preparations you have to make to even get a homemade explosive. The FBI foils hundreds of threats a year based on that alone.And yes, even hate speech should be a protected tenet of any modern society. It's not a great aspect of humanity, but it would be even worse to physically arrest someone just for using words to express their opinions. I never said it shouldn't be discouraged. Freedom of expression is so much more important than complete privacy from the government.Well that's how you discourage. By not small wing them in mosques and the streets. They can do it on their garages if they want.Eh. I actually kind of agree with this in a way, in the sense that yelling hatred at people who are just trying to get to work is akin to public nudity or soliciting. But at the same time, it's just a viewpoint that gets people inflamed, and people who protest in front of abortion clinics don't get arrested.If they're part of a group that bombs abortion clinics they should be removed. If not, leave them to their whining.
Quote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:43:32 PMQuote from: SecondClass on April 07, 2015, 06:40:07 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 07, 2015, 06:36:10 PMCatch them how I'd they're about to blow themselves up?And you'd rather increased surveillance instead of discouraging hate speech? Come on.It doesn't take a genius to know that there are steps and preparations you have to make to even get a homemade explosive. The FBI foils hundreds of threats a year based on that alone.And yes, even hate speech should be a protected tenet of any modern society. It's not a great aspect of humanity, but it would be even worse to physically arrest someone just for using words to express their opinions. I never said it shouldn't be discouraged. Freedom of expression is so much more important than complete privacy from the government.Well that's how you discourage. By not small wing them in mosques and the streets. They can do it on their garages if they want.Eh. I actually kind of agree with this in a way, in the sense that yelling hatred at people who are just trying to get to work is akin to public nudity or soliciting. But at the same time, it's just a viewpoint that gets people inflamed, and people who protest in front of abortion clinics don't get arrested.
I saw something absolutely disgusting today.
