I really don't get how people can be anti-capitalist

More Than Mortal · February 01, 2015, 09:18:19 AM

And this is, of course, coming from a former anarcho-communist. It genuinely seems to me that there's an inverse relationship between how much one understands capitalism, and how much one protests it. Obviously, it suffers from incumbency; it is the 'system' in which we('re supposed to) live, so it's easier to see its flaws and advocate something else.

But all the market is is a way of organising and facilitating exchange between people who want to do business. Very few of the problems with 'capitalism', when reduced to their fundamentals, are actually problems with capitalism and pretty much all of the ones I can think of have simple solutions, at least when compared with throwing the entire system out. I mean, let's be honest, it's the progress and development of capitalism from around the 1750s that facilitates our very protest of it.

Literally the only problem with capitalism that I can think of, which could bring the whole system down, is that it will bring about its own downfall via technological development.

DAS B00T x2 · February 01, 2015, 09:21:33 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 09:18:19 AM

And this is, of course, coming from a former anarcho-communist.

Well, shouldn't you understand what led you to be a filthy red for a while?

More Than Mortal · February 01, 2015, 09:22:51 AM

Quote from: xXiTz DaS b00tXx [orz] on February 01, 2015, 09:21:33 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 09:18:19 AM
And this is, of course, coming from a former anarcho-communist.
Well, shouldn't you understand what led you to be a filthy red for a while?

Yeah: ignorance.

DAS B00T x2 · February 01, 2015, 09:25:38 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 09:22:51 AM

Quote from: xXiTz DaS b00tXx [orz] on February 01, 2015, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 09:18:19 AM
And this is, of course, coming from a former anarcho-communist.
Well, shouldn't you understand what led you to be a filthy red for a while?
Yeah: ignorance.

Well there we go.

Nascent Email · February 01, 2015, 09:26:54 AM

The only fundamental error in capitalism is that it becomes increasingly easy for a tiny subset of the population to own and control the state the longer it runs on. Which is why communitarian, distributionist or localist capitalism are the better forms to follow.

Kinder Graham · February 01, 2015, 09:53:19 AM

Quote from: xXiTz DaS b00tXx [orz] on February 01, 2015, 09:21:33 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 09:18:19 AM
And this is, of course, coming from a former anarcho-communist.
Well, shouldn't you understand what led you to be a filthy red for a while?

I do, sadly. I hate myself for it

BrenMan 94 · February 01, 2015, 11:38:57 AM

Quote from: Trojanlord on February 01, 2015, 09:26:54 AM

The only fundamental error in capitalism is that it becomes increasingly easy for a tiny subset of the population to own and control the state the longer it runs on. Which is why communitarian, distributionist or localist capitalism are the better forms to follow.

That's a problem with the state, not capitalism.

challengerX · February 01, 2015, 12:46:32 PM

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Mordo · February 01, 2015, 12:53:33 PM

I'm a proponent of capitalism, much more than I was say a year ago, but the idea of totally unrestrained, unmonitored capitalism doesn't sit well with me, especially in regards to healthcare. I'm all for the free market, but some semblance of regulation is certainly required to protect consumer sovereignty, not necessarily via the state, but definitely some kind of third party.

Mattie G Indahouse · February 01, 2015, 01:06:29 PM

The only problem I have about it is how the money payouts our. I don't like that there's these CEO's that are making more in a day than what the regular employes make in a month or a year when they do far less than them. To me these CEO's should be making at least twice as much as what the regular employes are getting. If they want to be payed more then it should be due to knowledge of what they're doing, experience and if they are doing something that increases the profit of the company every year or makes it run better.

Nick McIntyre · February 01, 2015, 01:19:09 PM

I'm not against capitalism per say, but I am against the vulture capitalism the United States has been showing off lately

More Than Mortal · February 01, 2015, 01:25:19 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on February 01, 2015, 01:06:29 PM

when they do far less than them.

Please tell me more about your substantial experience in working as a chief executive of a large company.

Nascent Email · February 01, 2015, 02:00:34 PM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on February 01, 2015, 11:38:57 AM

Quote from: Trojanlord on February 01, 2015, 09:26:54 AM
The only fundamental error in capitalism is that it becomes increasingly easy for a tiny subset of the population to own and control the state the longer it runs on. Which is why communitarian, distributionist or localist capitalism are the better forms to follow.
That's a problem with the state, not capitalism.

I disagree as it is the capitalist system that allows this small subset to gain the power necessary to buy out the state. You can make laws that defend against corruption but their is not an inherent system in capitalism that constrains private interests from collecting resources over multiple generations until such a point that they have undisputed power over the state.

BrenMan 94 · February 01, 2015, 08:21:46 PM

Quote from: Trojanlord on February 01, 2015, 02:00:34 PM

I disagree as it is the capitalist system that allows this small subset to gain the power necessary to buy out the state. You can make laws that defend against corruption but their is not an inherent system in capitalism that constrains private interests from collecting resources over multiple generations until such a point that they have undisputed power over the state.

Funny considering there was already a small subset of largely unelected individuals who held regulatory power over the country before corporate buyouts.

And when you consider the fact that anyone can be bought or sold, having an entity with undisputed power over a population of over 300 million sounds like a terrible idea.

BaconShelf · February 03, 2015, 06:25:51 AM

Just out of question, what's your opinion of people who are pretty much ccentral?

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 06:49:43 AM

Quote from: ShelfBacon on February 03, 2015, 06:25:51 AM

Just out of question, what's your opinion of people who are pretty much ccentral?

Being a centrist just seems lazy to me really; moderation for moderation's sake.

Genghis Khan · February 03, 2015, 06:51:51 AM

Many people confuse capitalism with corporatism. I'd vote for a right-wing capitalist if there was one.

BaconShelf · February 03, 2015, 06:57:50 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 06:49:43 AM

Quote from: ShelfBacon on February 03, 2015, 06:25:51 AM
Just out of question, what's your opinion of people who are pretty much ccentral?
Being a centrist just seems lazy to me really; moderation for moderation's sake.

Eh, for me, I can see good and bad qualities with either side and as such, I don't think either is better than another.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · February 03, 2015, 10:56:55 AM

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Statefarm · February 03, 2015, 01:11:38 PM

Live and breath capitalism

Mattie G Indahouse · February 04, 2015, 05:06:39 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 01:25:19 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on February 01, 2015, 01:06:29 PM
when they do far less than them.

Please tell me more about your substantial experience in working as a chief executive of a large company.

Sure not everybody knows how to run a business but should they still be making much much more than what the regulars workers are making when they do more and work harder? Sure those people are what's running the company business but your workers are the ones who are doing things to make you money and they are the ones who are the reason why you have a company.

BrenMan 94 · February 04, 2015, 07:38:35 AM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on February 04, 2015, 05:06:39 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 01:25:19 PM
Quote from: BerzerkCommando on February 01, 2015, 01:06:29 PM
when they do far less than them.

Please tell me more about your substantial experience in working as a chief executive of a large company.
Sure not everybody knows how to run a business but should they still be making much much more than what the regulars workers are making when they do more and work harder? Sure those people are what's running the company business but your workers are the ones who are doing things to make you money and they are the ones who are the reason why you have a company.

It's easier to replace a desk worker than a CEO. CEO pay reflects that.

More Than Mortal · February 04, 2015, 10:03:28 AM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on February 04, 2015, 05:06:39 AM

they do more and work harder?

First of all that's an assumption that's probably false. Second of all its not just about how "hard" you work, it's about how much value you facilitate.

The labour of the executive is obviously worth more than that of worker.

Turkey · February 04, 2015, 12:08:32 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on February 04, 2015, 05:06:39 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 01, 2015, 01:25:19 PM
Quote from: BerzerkCommando on February 01, 2015, 01:06:29 PM
when they do far less than them.

Please tell me more about your substantial experience in working as a chief executive of a large company.
Sure not everybody knows how to run a business but should they still be making much much more than what the regulars workers are making when they do more and work harder? Sure those people are what's running the company business but your workers are the ones who are doing things to make you money and they are the ones who are the reason why you have a company.

Scenario 1: One worker mines 100 pounds of gravel every day. Another worker mines 100 pounds of diamonds every day. Who should get paid more?

Scenario 2: One worker is responsible for ten clients worth about $10,000 each, and works 8 hour days. Another worker is responsible for thousands of workers responsible for ten clients worth about $10,000 each, and works 8 hour days. Who should get paid more?