Quote from: Cindy on March 23, 2016, 12:58:10 PM"the culture of the area is a large reason for these actionsNobody disagrees with this. We're disagreeing with your implication that it's the culture as opposed to the religion which is at play; as if you can separate those two things so cleanly. Religion is culture.
"the culture of the area is a large reason for these actions
Be honest liberals, how many people have to die before you admit your fetish for non-whites is a bad thing?
ever notice how, while the vast majority of these violent perpetrators come from the Middle East, there are vastly large sums of Muslims elsewhere in the world? Less than 40% of the world's Muslim population lives in the Middle East, with incredibly large pockets living in India and Indonesia, but you don't nearly as often hear about radicalization of the religious sectors in those countries bombing churches or executing women.
and especially recent problems with invasions by western powers
Muslims, especially those uneducated in their religion and in their daily lives in general, are much easier to twist to the whim of groups like ISIS and their more violent interpretation of the Quaran.
And in case anyone is to come out and say, "well, the quaran just encourages violence at its core," then a reminder to you that Jihad simply means "struggle in the ways of Allah." The Bible has just as many violent, classist, and sexist messages as the Quaran does, but it is, obviously, less often interpreted in those ways.
I simply say that attempts to demonize or force out all immigration simply aid to the message and goal of groups like ISIS at its core. ISIS wants to play off of the fear of middle eastern culture and of Islam in order to say, "look, they're the bad guys. They're the evil ones. We need to get revenge on them for what they're done."
The majority of my argument, at its core, is that the demonization of all muslims for the act of the radical few is as ridiculous as pointing at a snowflake and saying "look, climate change can't be real" or pointing at a rapist and saying "look, all men are terrible."
No one said that Christianity was terrible at its core back when the KKK and white supremacists were lynching people left and right - because it's much easier to try and apply this sort of logic to a foreign or minority group.
stereotypes because
Furthermore, a majority of this board seems to support Trump's temporary Muslim ban, and that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in my life, so allow me to address that for a moment.
This Cadenza dude is a fucking retard
Quote from: Cadenza on March 24, 2016, 05:28:19 AMBe honest liberals, how many people have to die before you admit your fetish for non-whites is a bad thing?About the same amount of time it takes you to realize that blacks in the US do in fact deal with different situations than whites
Quote from: Luciana on March 24, 2016, 06:18:30 AMQuote from: Cadenza on March 24, 2016, 05:28:19 AMBe honest liberals, how many people have to die before you admit your fetish for non-whites is a bad thing?About the same amount of time it takes you to realize that blacks in the US do in fact deal with different situations than whitesCould you be more specific with what you mean by situations? I'm not going to pretend that they have an equal footing with whites but I'm not sure where your trying to point that question.
Quote from: challengerX on March 24, 2016, 06:28:50 AMThis Cadenza dude is a fucking retardHe didn't used to be this iirc. He only popped back in and started throwing his Trump stuff around.
Quote from: Cadenza on March 24, 2016, 06:41:51 AMQuote from: Luciana on March 24, 2016, 06:18:30 AMQuote from: Cadenza on March 24, 2016, 05:28:19 AMBe honest liberals, how many people have to die before you admit your fetish for non-whites is a bad thing?About the same amount of time it takes you to realize that blacks in the US do in fact deal with different situations than whitesCould you be more specific with what you mean by situations? I'm not going to pretend that they have an equal footing with whites but I'm not sure where your trying to point that question.I was being as vague and making a sweeping statement with my post as you were with yours
unlike the strawman image that Mordo had posted in the other thread which, in case anyone was wonder, was why I refused to continue the debate in that thread. I'm not going to argue with a person who declares what he thinks my viewpoint is in a hilariously dumb strawman post and then debates with that instead of me.
Quote from: Cindy on March 24, 2016, 03:38:33 AMunlike the strawman image that Mordo had posted in the other thread which, in case anyone was wonder, was why I refused to continue the debate in that thread. I'm not going to argue with a person who declares what he thinks my viewpoint is in a hilariously dumb strawman post and then debates with that instead of me.Honestly, the progressive victim/aggressor mentality never ceases to amaze me.My dude, you busted into MY thread labelling me and anyone that agreed with me a backwards racist /pol/ browser first. But this is the beauty of cognitive dissonance on the left isn't it? Going out of your way to be professional provocateurs then playing the victim card as soon as you get a taste of your own medicine in response. It's a great tactic for anyone that's a retard, but unfortunately for you, we can all see through the bullshit.
No, but why are you limiting the problem solely to violent fundamentalism? We already know a worrying number of Muslims, even in the West, hold views about gays or women or even democracy which simply aren't compatible with our liberal society. Is the Middle East, as a region, uniquely suited to producing insurgencies and militant groups? Yeah, I wouldn't dispute that. But it doesn't follow that there are no other problems with a large section of the global Muslim community.
The literature really doesn't support this theory of blowback. Does foreign policy contribute to terrorism in the sense it adds to terrorists' grievances? Yeah, it gives them a narrative to work with. But by and large that narrative is only really effective within the already-existing radicalised community. Drone strikes--even failed ones--demonstrably lead to a reduction in the lethality of terrorist attacks, Palestinian support for attacks on Israel has been falling, even through Operation Cast Lead, all of the 7/7 bombers were radicalised before the invasion of Iraq, the direction of causality strongly runs from Israeli casualties leading to Palestinian casualties and not vice versa.
If foreign policy is the cause of terrorism, how come most Muslims do not like bin Laden or al-Qaeda? It's fairly clear our foreign policy doesn't necessarily entail the creation of significant grievances among Muslim communities, so we have to question why some of them respond the way that they do. Obviously, we're dealing with a highly irrational and fanatical side of the Muslim population.
And let's be honest, these are exactly the people who are going to be trying to establish caliphates and Talibanised regimes across the Middle East whether or not we get involved. It's certainly a lot easier for them if we don't, and it makes the lives of those under them a hell of a lot worse. At some point, our foreign policy must be motivated by our values--which cannot be compromised. If our values entail stopping the establishment and spread of insurgencies seeking to overthrow their government--particularly democratic ones--then so be it.
See, it's comments like this that show you don't know what the evidence says. The relationship between education and terrorism is not very tight at all, and if anything runs in the direction opposite to what you suggest. Radicals tend to come from more affluent backgrounds than the working classes of their society. And, of course, we should expect this. While it's not unlikely that working-class people bombarded with propaganda could become radicalised, it's a hell of a lot more likely that they're just like working-class people anywhere else, and just want to get the fuck on with their lives with some degree of security.
And, as I said, right now the scale of Christian fundamentalism and its associated effects isn't quite on the same level as Islamic fundamentalism.
Two points: nobody except those on the far-right are arguing for the demonisation or expulsion of immigrants. Except literally nobody here has ever made the argument that all Muslims are horrible people and deserve to be demonised.
It's a shame stereotypes tend to be mad accurate then.
I literally haven't seen a single person here support that, and would expect only the 'usual suspects' like Midget, Cadenza and PSU to support that. They certainly don't represent conservative opinion on this board, and it's definitely not what I, Mordo, Turkey etc. believe.
Quote from: Mordo on March 24, 2016, 08:17:13 AMQuote from: Cindy on March 24, 2016, 03:38:33 AMunlike the strawman image that Mordo had posted in the other thread which, in case anyone was wonder, was why I refused to continue the debate in that thread. I'm not going to argue with a person who declares what he thinks my viewpoint is in a hilariously dumb strawman post and then debates with that instead of me.Honestly, the progressive victim/aggressor mentality never ceases to amaze me.My dude, you busted into MY thread labelling me and anyone that agreed with me a backwards racist /pol/ browser first. But this is the beauty of cognitive dissonance on the left isn't it? Going out of your way to be professional provocateurs then playing the victim card as soon as you get a taste of your own medicine in response. It's a great tactic for anyone that's a retard, but unfortunately for you, we can all see through the bullshit.Funny, since I didn't ever lift a finger against the "Go Back To Tumblr" image - which is a carbon copy of the one I posted there. Thought it was funny retaliation, actually.But, y'know, just keep yelling at me, fam. I'll keep calling you a bigot and the cycle should work out pretty well.
No offence, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding of causation/correlation confusion.
"oMg WHY IS A PERSON LIKE TRUMP WHO DOESN'T TAKE SHIT FROM ANYONE STRIKING A cHORD WITH SO MANY pEoPLE?1?!?!?!
Quote from: Cindy on March 24, 2016, 08:31:09 AMSend me a PM tomorrow reminding me to respond to this if I don't get around to it. I didn't sleep last night so I really can't be arsed to trawl through a word document full of sources/respond in full to you. I will say, however: QuoteNo offence, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding of causation/correlation confusion.No, it isn't. I didn't even begin to imply any kind of causal factor here. I actually don't even know what you think I think the causal factor is here, or how it relates to stereotypes. Are you implying that I think high crime rates among blacks are the result of criminals simply being black? Because I don't. Literally all I'm pointing out is that stereotypes are pretty accurate perceptions of correlations. At no point did I even slightly suggest that X group commits Y act because they are X group.
Quote from: Mordo on March 24, 2016, 08:36:31 AM"oMg WHY IS A PERSON LIKE TRUMP WHO DOESN'T TAKE SHIT FROM ANYONE STRIKING A cHORD WITH SO MANY pEoPLE?1?!?!?!lmao trump is just such a alpha bro i don't get why all those fucking beta cucks don't want him tbh
Well, going back into Brussels by train now. I'm not sure what it's going to be like.