Quote from: SuperIrish on July 05, 2015, 11:08:12 AMCan, and just have.well, you're wrongQuoteI mean, life still exists, but it's not "perfect" (by our own judgement of that definition).so if it exists, it worksthat's pretty retarded m8
Can, and just have.
I mean, life still exists, but it's not "perfect" (by our own judgement of that definition).
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 10:40:14 AMEh you're getting confused.Subjective pain would be something like psychosomatic pain.Says who?QuoteSentience is not simply the ability to feel something, it's the ability to feel something in response to something that isn't literally happening. A lot of people would say a dog mourns for their master, but really the dog knows, "That man scratches me behind the ears and feeds me, staying with him is a good thing." Animals don't have these abstract feelings that are subjective rather than objective, and that's what makes someone sentient.Let's pretend for a moment that you're right. You're wrong, completely, but let's pretend for a moment that you're not wrong.The fact that other organisms feel "objective pain" is precisely why it's wrong to torture and eat them. That's everything. Their capacity to suffer, regardless of their sentience, is the deal-breaker. It's wrong to harm animals. I mean, I feel like I'm talking to a preschooler, but I guess it's necessary sometimes.QuoteSubjective feelings are an abstract thought, and most animals are not capable of abstract thought.Who cares?
Eh you're getting confused.Subjective pain would be something like psychosomatic pain.
Sentience is not simply the ability to feel something, it's the ability to feel something in response to something that isn't literally happening. A lot of people would say a dog mourns for their master, but really the dog knows, "That man scratches me behind the ears and feeds me, staying with him is a good thing." Animals don't have these abstract feelings that are subjective rather than objective, and that's what makes someone sentient.
Subjective feelings are an abstract thought, and most animals are not capable of abstract thought.
Quote from: Snake Wilson on July 04, 2015, 09:01:01 PM...would that make the consumption of animals moral?of course not
...would that make the consumption of animals moral?
The point of this wall of text, is that physical pain isn't the worst part of being in pain, it's the emotional response that animals are incapable of. Dying isn't the worst part of death, it's the mourning by loved ones that animals don't do.
Sure it's still shite by your own imagined standards of what is perfect, but life is still here, and getting better at it.
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 11:20:11 AMThe point of this wall of text, is that physical pain isn't the worst part of being in pain, it's the emotional response that animals are incapable of. Dying isn't the worst part of death, it's the mourning by loved ones that animals don't do.I disagree, infinitely. Dying is the worst part of death. Suffering is the worst thing, ever, and we have an ethical responsibility of preventing it when we can.I don't care that animals don't mourn. At all.
Dying is a natural part of life and there's no point of putting it off.\
Like I said, you're just biased because you can't wrap your head around a mental state with no emotions because you're projecting, which is massively narcissistic.
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 11:28:12 AMDying is a natural part of life and there's no point of putting it off.\This doesn't have anything to do with anything.Some animals suffer excruciatingly when they die....They ought not to....Duh.QuoteLike I said, you're just biased because you can't wrap your head around a mental state with no emotions because you're projecting, which is massively narcissistic.I'm not thinking emotionally. I'm thinking logically.Suffering is bad. Animals suffering is bad.It's not that complicated.
Quote from: SuperIrish on July 05, 2015, 11:19:01 AMSure it's still shite by your own imagined standards of what is perfect, but life is still here, and getting better at it.getting better at what
Like I said, literally cannot stop projecting.
Getting more efficient at it will mean less goes to waste, thetefore less animals are killed for food
Quote from: SuperIrish on July 05, 2015, 11:36:40 AMGetting more efficient at it will mean less goes to waste, thetefore less animals are killed for foodThis is called veganism.
Nah bro you kill living things too.
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 11:34:29 AMLike I said, literally cannot stop projecting.YouTubeYeah, the dog totally wasn't writhing in SHEER AGONY at the end, there. Aftering being shot.That's just me projecting!You are insane.In. Sane.
Why does it matter if it was experiencing physical pain
Physical pain doesn't matter
Quote from: SuperIrish on July 05, 2015, 11:40:48 AM Nah bro you kill living things too.The point of veganism is to do the best you possibly and feasibly can.I am doing the best job that I possibly can.
Well really you could become a detritovore to do the best possible
And for plants, it's ending a life in much the same way of any living thing
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 11:51:27 AMWhy does it matter if it was experiencing physical painBecause it's a negative sensation in the universe.Negative sensations are negative.Anything that's negative shouldn't happen.Again, I don't know how to explain something THIS obvious to you.QuotePhysical pain doesn't matterIt's everything.
SO your ethics are an emotional construct that you apply to the unshareable physical wellbeing of another?
You don't feel bad for someone when they get shots do you?
Anyhow, you can only share emotions with someone, and if something can't be shared with you, it shouldn't matter to you. Of course you can experience pain for an animal if you PROJECT.
If you don't think physical pain matters, then I hope you get raped by ten people at once. While on fire.because it doesn't matter, rightit's nothing
Quote from: SuperIrish on July 05, 2015, 11:55:02 AMWell really you could become a detritovore to do the best possibleWhy would that be the best possible?
Detritovores only eat the refuse material of plants and other animals, and seeing as naturally dead plant refuse hasn't suffered and still contains nutrients...
Why are you talking about medical shots anyway? Did you watch the video?...The dog was SHOT. By a cop, with a gun. Two or three times. It was writhing on the ground in agony.Because it was shot.christ
Yes, I was using a DIFFERENT example of pain than the one you used.Is that hard to comprehend?
I needed to use an example that there was a pro to in order to illustrate my point.
Here though lets use the example you used.If (hypothetically) being shot gave you super powers, would getting shot be that bad?Not if you lived.
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 11:59:31 AMSO your ethics are an emotional construct that you apply to the unshareable physical wellbeing of another?I made no mention of emotions whatsoever.QuoteYou don't feel bad for someone when they get shots do you?Yes, I do. Shots kinda hurt a little bit. I wouldn't want even that tiny little discomfort imposed on anybody.QuoteAnyhow, you can only share emotions with someone, and if something can't be shared with you, it shouldn't matter to you. Of course you can experience pain for an animal if you PROJECT.So the dog wasn't suffering, then.Yep, you're insane. I reiterate:Quote from: Verbatim on July 05, 2015, 11:55:44 AMIf you don't think physical pain matters, then I hope you get raped by ten people at once. While on fire.because it doesn't matter, rightit's nothing
I wouldn't want even that tiny little discomfort imposed on anybody.
Being raped by ten people at once would leave me with serious emotional scars.If I didn't have emotions it would be fine as soon as they were done and I would never care again.
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 12:17:31 PMYes, I was using a DIFFERENT example of pain than the one you used.Is that hard to comprehend?and it was a stupid one, especially considering that you never really addressed the dog getting SHOT, and moved on to medical shots, making it look like you misinterpreted my postsmart moveQuoteI needed to use an example that there was a pro to in order to illustrate my point.LOLso you're conceding that there are examples for which there are NO "pros"QuoteHere though lets use the example you used.If (hypothetically) being shot gave you super powers, would getting shot be that bad?Not if you lived.they don't, thoughso what's the point of the hypotheticalyou're just wasting my time now