How would you help gun control in the U.S.

Septy · August 28, 2015, 04:06:45 PM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on August 28, 2015, 04:03:40 PM

Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: Flee on August 28, 2015, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:07:04 PM
Quote from: Flee on August 28, 2015, 03:03:49 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 02:24:32 PM
Quote from: Saladin on August 28, 2015, 02:21:47 PM
To be honest I don't know why Americans feel the need to even own guns. Like, you're not special, many other countries get along just fine without 'em.
Maybe because its an unalienable right?
It isn't, though. It's far from being recognized as a universal right (and rightfully so) and your amendment too can be amended.
You're not American. It's our unalienable right. I don't really find a problem with a non-american criticizing our laws but you can't go forcing your rhetoric upon us. Just because it's not your unalienable right doesn't mean it isn't ours.
A right to self defense? Sure. But a right to own a specific man-made tool?
And how do you suggest we defend ourselves?

I'm genuinely intrigued and not being sarcastic.
Is there somebody out to get you
Oh good point. I'm sure everyone that has gotten killed knew that person was out to kill them. How foolish of them to die even with prior notice.
So much paranoia

If you're living in a place where you feel the need to constantly be close to a gun then maybe you should move.
Not everyone can afford to just up and move, especially inner city families. Why quit one's job and buy a 75k+ home, when you can buy a $750 dollar (or less) gun and some bullets?

Would you rather go through the trouble of finding a new home and job or your entire family killed because you chose the wrong place to settle in. Just because you have a gun does not mean you're instantly safe.

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:08:51 PM

And really, if you have to actually train kids from where they're 5 years old to take cover under desks and shut off lights because intruders with guns might come around, or to keep your head below the window

well, that alone already tells you the situation we're in. And the fact 20 some odd children can get massacred and nothing gets done.

It is more so cultural than just guns, but whenever the issue is brought up people get all uppity and quick to discount everything. Much like racism in today's America, for whatever stupid reason.

DAS B00T x2 · August 28, 2015, 04:09:10 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 03:59:49 PM

Quote from: Lemy the Lizerd on August 28, 2015, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 03:52:49 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
Oh no how dare someone support personal freedom. What an injustice.
The Euro fags are mostly from England. England is factually more free than America, and has consistently championed for human rights far far longer.

Sorry, kiddo.
>bongland

>free

>a major political party campaigned on criminalizing "islamophobia" and its members weren't lynched on the street

LOL
> Tea Party

they're still a thing?

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:09:38 PM

They're still a thing. They're fighting with their own party though.

Jocephalopod · August 28, 2015, 04:11:38 PM

hmm, well... I don't think we should outright ban guns, as everyone has the right to defend themselves. Totalitarian takeover aside, we should gravitate the "gun culture" of the us into an educated society that respects the responsibility of owning a firearm.

I'd propose setting up a system sort of like Switzerland's in order to be eligible to buy a firearm, and couple that with the existing precautions. I'd also focus on gang violence and mental illnesses... make it hard for psychos and scumbags to buy guns.

lol i just asked my grandpa on his views, he says to segregate blacks from owning guns and reopen "the nuthouses"

so we're basically in agreement

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 28, 2015, 04:11:47 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Incan · August 28, 2015, 04:12:25 PM

Quote from: Lemy the Lizerd on August 28, 2015, 04:04:10 PM

Why do people get so butthurt when they're told to fuck off to somewhere that has the laws they want. I don't get it.

Like if I were in Saudi Arabia and my friend wanted to go somewhere he could convert to Christianity, and I told him to fuck off to America or Europe, he'd be like "oh fuck good idea".

But when an American wants European-style healthcare or welfare or gun laws, and I tell him to fuck off to a country with those things instead of trying to force them on me, he gets butthurt. Why?

Clearly you're not proud to be American and you're not proud of our laws or culture. Why not go be a part of one you can actually appreciate?

This post strikes me as a little odd, as an American aren't people allowed to express their voices and wish for change in their country? Isn't that covered by free speech. Surely it's Un-American to tell people to leave the country for voicing their opinion on a matter.

DAS B00T x2 · August 28, 2015, 04:13:06 PM

Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 04:06:45 PM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on August 28, 2015, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: Flee on August 28, 2015, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:07:04 PM
Quote from: Flee on August 28, 2015, 03:03:49 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 02:24:32 PM
Quote from: Saladin on August 28, 2015, 02:21:47 PM
To be honest I don't know why Americans feel the need to even own guns. Like, you're not special, many other countries get along just fine without 'em.
Maybe because its an unalienable right?
It isn't, though. It's far from being recognized as a universal right (and rightfully so) and your amendment too can be amended.
You're not American. It's our unalienable right. I don't really find a problem with a non-american criticizing our laws but you can't go forcing your rhetoric upon us. Just because it's not your unalienable right doesn't mean it isn't ours.
A right to self defense? Sure. But a right to own a specific man-made tool?
And how do you suggest we defend ourselves?

I'm genuinely intrigued and not being sarcastic.
Is there somebody out to get you
Oh good point. I'm sure everyone that has gotten killed knew that person was out to kill them. How foolish of them to die even with prior notice.
So much paranoia

If you're living in a place where you feel the need to constantly be close to a gun then maybe you should move.
Not everyone can afford to just up and move, especially inner city families. Why quit one's job and buy a 75k+ home, when you can buy a $750 dollar (or less) gun and some bullets?
Would you rather go through the trouble of finding a new home and job or your entire family killed because you chose the wrong place to settle in. Just because you have a gun does not mean you're instantly safe.

People who live in the areas that you need to move from literally can't. I see it every day.
So they do what they can to make themselves a little more safe from the hoodlums and gangbangers.

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:15:19 PM

Quote from: Incan on August 28, 2015, 04:12:25 PM

This post strikes me as a little odd, as an American aren't people allowed to express their voices and wish for change in their country? Isn't that covered by free speech. Surely it's Un-American to tell people to leave the country for voicing their opinion on a matter.

It is

it's just irony.

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:16:06 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:11:47 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:06:21 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:05:22 PM
once again

>implying human rights is the only aspect of freedom
Alright I'll bite

What other things would you consider freedom?
the freedom to do what i please as long as its not infringing upon another being's rights

doing what i want may consist of owning a gun and i have that freedom until i use it to harm someone else in an unjustified manner and infringe upon their rights

What you described sounds something just short of anarchy.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 28, 2015, 04:16:25 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Septy · August 28, 2015, 04:16:34 PM

Quote from: Incan on August 28, 2015, 04:12:25 PM

Quote from: Lemy the Lizerd on August 28, 2015, 04:04:10 PM
Why do people get so butthurt when they're told to fuck off to somewhere that has the laws they want. I don't get it.

Like if I were in Saudi Arabia and my friend wanted to go somewhere he could convert to Christianity, and I told him to fuck off to America or Europe, he'd be like "oh fuck good idea".

But when an American wants European-style healthcare or welfare or gun laws, and I tell him to fuck off to a country with those things instead of trying to force them on me, he gets butthurt. Why?

Clearly you're not proud to be American and you're not proud of our laws or culture. Why not go be a part of one you can actually appreciate?
This post strikes me as a little odd, as an American aren't people allowed to express their voices and wish for change in their country? Isn't that covered by free speech. Surely it's Un-American to tell people to leave the country for voicing their opinion on a matter.

People don't like it when you point out flaws in their beliefs

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 28, 2015, 04:16:46 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:18:17 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:16:46 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:16:06 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:11:47 PM
Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:06:21 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:05:22 PM
once again

>implying human rights is the only aspect of freedom
Alright I'll bite

What other things would you consider freedom?
the freedom to do what i please as long as its not infringing upon another being's rights

doing what i want may consist of owning a gun and i have that freedom until i use it to harm someone else in an unjustified manner and infringe upon their rights
What you described sounds something just short of anarchy.
Because that would be so bad

And that explains this all

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:18:42 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:16:25 PM

Its un-American to say we should abolish a freedom that the country was founded upon. Its not like voicing your opinion over healthcare for instance. You're saying that we should throw away a founding principle of the whole country, its part of our culture.

Which abolished freedom are we talking about?

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 28, 2015, 04:19:31 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Lemy the Lizerd · August 28, 2015, 04:19:48 PM

Quote from: Incan on August 28, 2015, 04:12:25 PM

Quote from: Lemy the Lizerd on August 28, 2015, 04:04:10 PM
Why do people get so butthurt when they're told to fuck off to somewhere that has the laws they want. I don't get it.

Like if I were in Saudi Arabia and my friend wanted to go somewhere he could convert to Christianity, and I told him to fuck off to America or Europe, he'd be like "oh fuck good idea".

But when an American wants European-style healthcare or welfare or gun laws, and I tell him to fuck off to a country with those things instead of trying to force them on me, he gets butthurt. Why?

Clearly you're not proud to be American and you're not proud of our laws or culture. Why not go be a part of one you can actually appreciate?
This post strikes me as a little odd, as an American aren't people allowed to express their voices and wish for change in their country? Isn't that covered by free speech. Surely it's Un-American to tell people to leave the country for voicing their opinion on a matter.

It's un-American to demand other Americans give up their constitutional rights, yeah.

Septy · August 28, 2015, 04:20:07 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:11:47 PM

the freedom to do what i please as long as its not infringing upon another being's rights

And this is why the U.S is such a clusterfuck compared to Europe.

People think they can do whatever they want unless someone stops them.

Word Wizard · August 28, 2015, 04:20:37 PM

Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 04:06:45 PM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on August 28, 2015, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: Flee on August 28, 2015, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 03:07:04 PM
Quote from: Flee on August 28, 2015, 03:03:49 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 02:24:32 PM
Quote from: Saladin on August 28, 2015, 02:21:47 PM
To be honest I don't know why Americans feel the need to even own guns. Like, you're not special, many other countries get along just fine without 'em.
Maybe because its an unalienable right?
It isn't, though. It's far from being recognized as a universal right (and rightfully so) and your amendment too can be amended.
You're not American. It's our unalienable right. I don't really find a problem with a non-american criticizing our laws but you can't go forcing your rhetoric upon us. Just because it's not your unalienable right doesn't mean it isn't ours.
A right to self defense? Sure. But a right to own a specific man-made tool?
And how do you suggest we defend ourselves?

I'm genuinely intrigued and not being sarcastic.
Is there somebody out to get you
Oh good point. I'm sure everyone that has gotten killed knew that person was out to kill them. How foolish of them to die even with prior notice.
So much paranoia

If you're living in a place where you feel the need to constantly be close to a gun then maybe you should move.
Not everyone can afford to just up and move, especially inner city families. Why quit one's job and buy a 75k+ home, when you can buy a $750 dollar (or less) gun and some bullets?
Would you rather go through the trouble of finding a new home and job or your entire family killed because you chose the wrong place to settle in. Just because you have a gun does not mean you're instantly safe.

If it were that easy no one would live in gang ridden shit holes. Obviously there are hurdles in life that prevent people from just running away from their situation. It's like telling bums to just go get jobs if they don't like sleeping on the streets. It's unrealistic and doesn't help to say it.

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:21:01 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:19:31 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:18:42 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
Its un-American to say we should abolish a freedom that the country was founded upon. Its not like voicing your opinion over healthcare for instance. You're saying that we should throw away a founding principle of the whole country, its part of our culture.
Which abolished freedom are we talking about?
The freedom to own a firearm

I don't think anyone here was talking about getting rid of them entirely though.

And even then, the 2nd Amendment is debated anyway because of how it's interpreted.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Many argue that they are talking about a militia being kept up in order to not let the federal government take over. Others say it is what we have now.

In the end, it was the founding fathers fault for not making it more clear.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 28, 2015, 04:21:34 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 28, 2015, 04:23:19 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Lemy the Lizerd · August 28, 2015, 04:24:05 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:16:06 PM

What you described sounds something just short of anarchy.

NOW THEY UNDERSTAND

DAS B00T x2 · August 28, 2015, 04:25:33 PM

Quote from: Septy on August 28, 2015, 04:20:07 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:11:47 PM
the freedom to do what i please as long as its not infringing upon another being's rights
And this is why the U.S is such a clusterfuck compared to Europe.

People think they can do whatever they want unless someone stops them.

Whoa there, son. You need to understand libertarian ideology.
It's not "whatever I want until someone tries to stop me", it's "whatever I can do without infringing on the unalienable rights, freedoms, or property of another man." Tell me now, what's so wrong with that?

Lemy the Lizerd · August 28, 2015, 04:25:33 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:21:01 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:19:31 PM
Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:18:42 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
Its un-American to say we should abolish a freedom that the country was founded upon. Its not like voicing your opinion over healthcare for instance. You're saying that we should throw away a founding principle of the whole country, its part of our culture.
Which abolished freedom are we talking about?
The freedom to own a firearm
I don't think anyone here was talking about getting rid of them entirely though.

And even then, the 2nd Amendment is debated anyway because of how it's interpreted.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Many argue that they are talking about a militia being kept up in order to not let the federal government take over. Others say it is what we have now.

In the end, it was the founding fathers fault for not making it more clear.

it is literally only unclear if you never took high school english and have no understanding of english grammar.

Incan · August 28, 2015, 04:25:50 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:16:25 PM

Quote from: Incan on August 28, 2015, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: Lemy the Lizerd on August 28, 2015, 04:04:10 PM
Why do people get so butthurt when they're told to fuck off to somewhere that has the laws they want. I don't get it.

Like if I were in Saudi Arabia and my friend wanted to go somewhere he could convert to Christianity, and I told him to fuck off to America or Europe, he'd be like "oh fuck good idea".

But when an American wants European-style healthcare or welfare or gun laws, and I tell him to fuck off to a country with those things instead of trying to force them on me, he gets butthurt. Why?

Clearly you're not proud to be American and you're not proud of our laws or culture. Why not go be a part of one you can actually appreciate?
This post strikes me as a little odd, as an American aren't people allowed to express their voices and wish for change in their country? Isn't that covered by free speech. Surely it's Un-American to tell people to leave the country for voicing their opinion on a matter.
Its un-American to say we should abolish a freedom that the country was founded upon. Its not like voicing your opinion over healthcare for instance. You're saying that we should throw away a founding principle of the whole country, its part of our culture.

That's not it at all though. No one is going to take away your right to bare arms, it's more of just making sure the entire process of obtaining those arms is altered in a way to make sure they don't get into the hands of the wrong people. For example mental checks aren't taking away your right to bare arms, it's just making sure those who aren't sound of mind are unable to purchase weapons. Sure some who are unstable may still go to the lengths to get their hands of them, but it would just be a fitting pre-caution.

To ask for background checks and licenses isn't taking away your right, as you could still purchase guns and bare arms.

Septy · August 28, 2015, 04:26:19 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:23:19 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:21:01 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:19:31 PM
Quote from: Luciana on August 28, 2015, 04:18:42 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 28, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
Its un-American to say we should abolish a freedom that the country was founded upon. Its not like voicing your opinion over healthcare for instance. You're saying that we should throw away a founding principle of the whole country, its part of our culture.
Which abolished freedom are we talking about?
The freedom to own a firearm
I don't think anyone here was talking about getting rid of them entirely though.

And even then, the 2nd Amendment is debated anyway because of how it's interpreted.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Many argue that they are talking about a militia being kept up in order to not let the federal government take over. Others say it is what we have now.

In the end, it was the founding fathers fault for not making it more clear.
My understanding was that all you cucks were arguing for completely ban on firearms. That's what I've been arguing this whole time. I support some moderate regulation probably akin to Das' ideas.

Quote

-License to purchase a weapon that must be renewed every 5 years
-All guns must be kept in a safe when not being used
-Random checkups to ensure you're following he law
-Mandatory background checks with mental evaluations when purchasing a weapon and a license
-Ban fully automatic rifles nationwide
-Ban semi-auto rifles but bolt action rifles are fine
-Still allow handguns and shotguns
-Ban open carry
-Concealed carry is only licened to a person if they're in an emergency
-Ban private sales of firearms
-Ban handguns that have a barrel length under 4in

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:27:05 PM

I think taking them all away is stupid.

Any idea that is radical on controversial issues is retarded to begin with.

Much like how this country was founded, you need to compromise, and I have always suggested classes should be mandatory, or at least promote education and training of firearms before you get them. Also focus on mental issues as well.

Jesus what an exhausting discussion lol.

Luciana · August 28, 2015, 04:29:40 PM

I went to a gun show with my brother and he purchased a firearm and they ran a background check (I'm in Virginia, a conservative state by law, so I was suprised). Only took about 5 minutes before he was good to go.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 28, 2015, 04:32:51 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.