How can people reasonably support the legalization of ALL drugs?

ban me · June 07, 2015, 12:21:46 PM

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Mordo · June 07, 2015, 12:31:10 PM

Yeah, I'm kind of in begrudging agreement on this one.

I have no problem with the decriminalization of psychoactive drugs. Opiates and amphetamines however, are fiendishly addictive. I'd argue it eliminates any kind of personal choice involved.

More Than Mortal · June 07, 2015, 12:37:58 PM

The argument in favour of legalising heroin isn't about making it commercially available.

It shouldn't be commercially available, but legalising the consumption of heroin is the right thing to do because you don't treat a medical issue like addiction as a criminal issue.

Turkey · June 07, 2015, 01:03:01 PM

I think it's more about shifting drug treatment from being punitive to rehabilitative. Nobody's suggesting we let people sell the stuff en masse, but I'm definitely in favor of ensuring we don't treat druggies by locking them up.

BrenMan 94 · June 07, 2015, 01:29:44 PM

Yeah the whole opiates/acetomenophen issue is one I'm having a hard time coming to grips with in regard to my view that people should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies.

I guess you could argue that giving someone those kinds of drugs is a violation of the NAP when they're unaware of the risks involved, but that argument is less than sound.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · June 07, 2015, 02:18:18 PM

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Verbatim · June 07, 2015, 03:04:42 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 07, 2015, 12:37:58 PM

you don't treat a medical issue like addiction as a criminal issue.

that about sums it up

Mattie G Indahouse · June 07, 2015, 04:48:35 PM

Quote from: kill yourself on June 07, 2015, 02:18:18 PM

I just don't understand what's wrong with someone having the choice to destroy their body if they want to.

I take it if you have a kid who is doing meth you wouldn't do anything about it?

More Than Mortal · June 07, 2015, 04:56:36 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on June 07, 2015, 04:48:35 PM

I take it if you have a kid who is doing meth you wouldn't do anything about it?

Being a parent =/= being a legislator.

Being a kid =/= being an adult.

Aether · June 07, 2015, 06:11:00 PM

I don't think possession of relatively smaller amounts of hard drugs should be criminalized. Junkies need treatment, not jail time. (unless they really are criminal)

Trafficking large quantities however. . I mean you can't just let a nig pushing kilos of coke get off scott free or every other nigga in the hood is gonna start doing it too until the trap house is turned into the trap city.

Super Irish · June 08, 2015, 01:13:35 PM

Pretty much what Meta said, with added on;

It may become state-funded addiction, but with proper taxation applied, it can also be government funded rehabilitation too.

Atm a portion of people's taxes go into healthcare, and a portion of that into rehab centres. With taxing on legalised drugs, it can be fed back into the health service, as well as disuading reasonable people by adding an unreasonable tax e.g. proportionally to the damage a certain drugs do, i.e. The substitute drug Krokodil would be pointlessly expensive when you can get the actual drug (Heroin, which have it's own but presumably lower tax bracket)

Indirectly there *could* be less hospitilisations/OD's from a pure, regulated drug compared to heroin cut with arsenic or coke cut with rat posion or whatever drugs are cut with these days... (though this point is purely speculatory).

Lord Starch · June 08, 2015, 02:10:05 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 07, 2015, 12:37:58 PM

The argument in favour of legalising heroin isn't about making it commercially available.

It shouldn't be commercially available, but legalising the consumption of heroin is the right thing to do because you don't treat a medical issue like addiction as a criminal issue.

Making it illegal is a deterrent so people don't fall victim to its addictive properties. Removing the deterant of jail time would in theory make people more likely to take it. There are already rehab centers that will help you if you become addicted.

More Than Mortal · June 08, 2015, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: Lord Starch on June 08, 2015, 02:10:05 PM

Making it illegal is a deterrent so people don't fall victim to its addictive properties.

Not really, even the Home Office acknowledges that there's little correlation between drug use and enforcement methods.

Not to mention, illegalising the drug does three very damaging things. First, it puts people who nevertheless fall pray to addiction in a holding pen with other criminals. Secondly, it incentivises drug dealers to downgrade the purity of the drug, adding dangerous adulterants or even supply different drugs altogether which aren't illegal yet still dangerous. And finally, it pads the pockets of the cartels by increasing their cost of doing business.

Lord Starch · June 08, 2015, 02:21:37 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 08, 2015, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: Lord Starch on June 08, 2015, 02:10:05 PM
Making it illegal is a deterrent so people don't fall victim to its addictive properties.
Not really, even the Home Office acknowledges that there's little correlation between drug use and enforcement methods.

Not to mention, illegalising the drug does three very damaging things. First, it puts people who nevertheless fall pray to addiction in a holding pen with other criminals. Secondly, it incentivises drug dealers to downgrade the purity of the drug, adding dangerous adulterants or even supply different drugs altogether which aren't illegal yet still dangerous. And finally, it pads the pockets of the cartels by increasing their cost of doing business.

I can't disagree with any of this. It's a good point. I actually used a similar argument for the legalization of weed but I guess I have a bias against harder drugs. I should change my mindset about that.

challengerX · June 08, 2015, 02:25:08 PM

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Aether · June 08, 2015, 02:35:34 PM

Quote from: challengerX on June 08, 2015, 02:25:08 PM

The point of legalization is to make it so people work at shops and sell stuff legit. Not out of a trap house and not toting guns.

I was implying decriminalization. I didn't think anyone was really rooting for the regulated sale of hard drugs for recreational use.

Well besides maybe slash. He didn't exactly go into detail with his opinion.

More Than Mortal · June 08, 2015, 04:18:22 PM

Quote from: DemonicChronic on June 08, 2015, 02:35:34 PM

Well besides maybe slash. He didn't exactly go into detail with his opinion.

Slash is here?

Verbatim · June 08, 2015, 04:19:23 PM

slash is "kill yourself"

More Than Mortal · June 08, 2015, 04:22:44 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 08, 2015, 04:19:23 PM

slash is "kill yourself"

Well how about that.

Lord Starch · June 08, 2015, 05:26:21 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 08, 2015, 04:22:44 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 08, 2015, 04:19:23 PM
slash is "kill yourself"
Well how about that.

Indeed. We should all really have fixed usernames to avoid confusion...

Verbatim · June 08, 2015, 05:50:27 PM

all you have to do is click the arrow on the very right of their title bars to check

Forgewolf · June 08, 2015, 09:23:38 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 07, 2015, 12:37:58 PM

The argument in favour of legalising heroin isn't about making it commercially available.

It shouldn't be commercially available, but legalising the consumption of heroin is the right thing to do because you don't treat a medical issue like addiction as a criminal issue.

Right on target as usual Meta.. *Tips nonexisting fedora*

Lord Starch · June 09, 2015, 04:37:55 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 08, 2015, 05:50:27 PM

all you have to do is click the arrow on the very right of their title bars to check

I know, but some folks might not be aware. The fact that meta is just now finding out who slash is means some confusion will come about.

Azumarill · June 09, 2015, 12:04:50 PM

Quote from: Lord Starch on June 08, 2015, 05:26:21 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 08, 2015, 04:22:44 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 08, 2015, 04:19:23 PM
slash is "kill yourself"
Well how about that.
Indeed. We should all really have fixed usernames to avoid confusion...

we do, everyone has a unique ID pseudonym, just click on the "more" button on the far right of their nameplate and itll say their permanent pseudonym

challengerX · June 09, 2015, 01:32:49 PM

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Tyger · June 09, 2015, 10:46:05 PM

You guys add right, addiction to meth shouldn't be treated as a crime. but how did they get addicted to meth if they didn't break any laws?