How bad does life have to get

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 03, 2015, 10:03:33 AM

Quote from: DemonicChronic on February 03, 2015, 09:57:43 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
You are completely nonsensical and should probably visit a shrink.
Nuka it's fine if you want to disagree and debate with Verbatim about this, but drop this type of shit when you do it. There is no reason you have to be so insulting when making a point, especially in this forum.

Also, stop lashing back so much, Verbatim. Like I said, this isn't the forum for it.

Can we not have anymore reason to flood reports from this thread? Heysoose cristo.

Did you even read the other posts? Verbatim started it with:

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:17:33 AM

"life is what you make of it, durr"

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:20:39 AM

. . .

OF COURSE THAT'S THE FUCKING GOAL. How the fuck could you NOT know that?

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 10:03:36 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:59:53 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:52:46 AM
What sense does it make for a species to force its own extinction because it cannot fulfill a logically impossible moral requirement?
Perfect sense. I don't know what's so troubling about it, to be honest. You're going to have to tell me.
What part of "logically impossible" do you need me to clarify?

I'd like you to clarify why not having kids--if taken as a moral imperative--is at all logical impossible.

Drawing a triangle with four sides? THAT's logically impossible.

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 10:04:53 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:02:52 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 10:02:14 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:59:28 AM
Life isn't supposed to be fair.
All the more reason not to impose life on others.
Or better yet, to put them up to the challenge to see how far they can go.

Even I find that a horribly capricious sentiment. "Might as well just see how they do!"

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 03, 2015, 10:05:14 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:03:36 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:59:53 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:52:46 AM
What sense does it make for a species to force its own extinction because it cannot fulfill a logically impossible moral requirement?
Perfect sense. I don't know what's so troubling about it, to be honest. You're going to have to tell me.
What part of "logically impossible" do you need me to clarify?
I'd like you to clarify why not having kids--if taken as a moral imperative--is at all logical impossible.

Drawing a triangle with four sides? THAT's logically impossible.

Verbatim's primary argument is that conception is wrong because the one being conceived cannot consent beforehand. But how does that which does not exist consent, or do anything at all for that matter?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 03, 2015, 10:05:19 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:03:33 AM

Quote from: DemonicChronic on February 03, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
You are completely nonsensical and should probably visit a shrink.
Nuka it's fine if you want to disagree and debate with Verbatim about this, but drop this type of shit when you do it. There is no reason you have to be so insulting when making a point, especially in this forum.

Also, stop lashing back so much, Verbatim. Like I said, this isn't the forum for it.

Can we not have anymore reason to flood reports from this thread? Heysoose cristo.
Did you even read the other posts? Verbatim started it with:

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:17:33 AM
"life is what you make of it, durr"
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:20:39 AM
. . .

OF COURSE THAT'S THE FUCKING GOAL. How the fuck could you NOT know that?

He did tell Verb to stop lashing back as well.

Verbatim · February 03, 2015, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:02:52 AM

Or better yet, to put them up to the challenge to see how far they can go.

Why? For what?

Aether · February 03, 2015, 10:05:58 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:00:35 AM

Quote from: DemonicChronic on February 03, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
You are completely nonsensical and should probably visit a shrink.
Nuka it's fine if you want to disagree and debate with Verbatim about this, but drop this type of shit when you do it. There is no reason you have to be so insulting when making a point, especially in this forum.
Ah, but it's okay for him to lash out with worse things just because people don't spam the report button?

Didn't I just tell him to stop lashing out? Explain to me when I ever said it was okay?

I want you to both quit because this board is supposed to be civilized. You're supposed to leave your petty emotions at the door and wipe the bullshit off of your feet when you come in. If you or anyone else doesn't agree then take it up with Cheat since that's what how he wants this forum to be.

ftr I'm trying not to have to lock this thread but it seems to be getting increasingly harder.

rC · February 03, 2015, 10:06:27 AM

LOL THE EDGE IS REAL

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 10:07:22 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:05:14 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:03:36 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:59:53 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:52:46 AM
What sense does it make for a species to force its own extinction because it cannot fulfill a logically impossible moral requirement?
Perfect sense. I don't know what's so troubling about it, to be honest. You're going to have to tell me.
What part of "logically impossible" do you need me to clarify?
I'd like you to clarify why not having kids--if taken as a moral imperative--is at all logical impossible.

Drawing a triangle with four sides? THAT's logically impossible.
Verbatim's primary argument is that conception is wrong because the one being conceived cannot consent beforehand. But how does that which does not exist consent, or do anything at all for that matter?

The point is one of imposition not coercion. A foetus can't consent to its mother drinking heavily while pregnant, but that's no justification for the imposition of serious deficiencies onto the foetus.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 03, 2015, 10:07:52 AM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:05:19 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: DemonicChronic on February 03, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
You are completely nonsensical and should probably visit a shrink.
Nuka it's fine if you want to disagree and debate with Verbatim about this, but drop this type of shit when you do it. There is no reason you have to be so insulting when making a point, especially in this forum.

Also, stop lashing back so much, Verbatim. Like I said, this isn't the forum for it.

Can we not have anymore reason to flood reports from this thread? Heysoose cristo.
Did you even read the other posts? Verbatim started it with:

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:17:33 AM
"life is what you make of it, durr"
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:20:39 AM
. . .

OF COURSE THAT'S THE FUCKING GOAL. How the fuck could you NOT know that?
He did tell Verb to stop lashing back as well.

As if they're both equally in the wrong here.

Verbatim · February 03, 2015, 10:08:08 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:03:36 AM

I'd like you to clarify why not having kids--if taken as a moral imperative--is at all logical impossible.

Drawing a triangle with four sides? THAT's logically impossible.

He's referring to the fact that I refer to life as an imposition. I often say, I would have no problem with natalism (giving birth) if you had a choice in the matter. If you could give your consent, I wouldn't have problems with procreation. Because you could say, "Wow, fuck you, I don't wanna be a part of that hellhole."

But because that's not possible, Kupo thinks it's okay to impose life. Because there has to be an existing person to consent in order for it to matter.

That's his logic.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 03, 2015, 10:08:08 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:06:26 AM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:02:32 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:01:54 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 10:00:45 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:56:17 AM
Because there's nothing inherently wrong with suffering, which seems to be the entire reason for wanting to eliminate it.
For the fifth time, it's NOT.

There's nothing inherently wrong with suffering--that doesn't mean it HAS to happen. That doesn't mean it HAS to exist. Invariably, it is BETTER if there is NO suffering.
What's the point of nonexistence?
Conversely, what's the point of existence?
There isn't, until you give it purpose.
And giving something purpose is what everything's about.

The universe will continue to exist with life with it as much as we want or don't want it to. To appreciate it for its beauty and accomplishments is better than to sit around pouting about how you with everything was an empty void of nothingness.

So the point of existence is subjective?

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 03, 2015, 10:08:30 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:07:22 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:05:14 AM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:03:36 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:59:53 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:52:46 AM
What sense does it make for a species to force its own extinction because it cannot fulfill a logically impossible moral requirement?
Perfect sense. I don't know what's so troubling about it, to be honest. You're going to have to tell me.
What part of "logically impossible" do you need me to clarify?
I'd like you to clarify why not having kids--if taken as a moral imperative--is at all logical impossible.

Drawing a triangle with four sides? THAT's logically impossible.
Verbatim's primary argument is that conception is wrong because the one being conceived cannot consent beforehand. But how does that which does not exist consent, or do anything at all for that matter?
The point is one of imposition not coercion. A foetus can't consent to its mother drinking heavily while pregnant, but that's no justification for the imposition of serious deficiencies onto the foetus.

But a fetus exists.

Verbatim · February 03, 2015, 10:08:55 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:05:14 AM

Verbatim's primary argument is that conception is wrong because the one being conceived cannot consent beforehand. But how does that which does not exist consent, or do anything at all for that matter?

Why the fuck do you say "primary"? It's AN argument that I gave. It's not my fucking primary argument.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 03, 2015, 10:09:50 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:07:52 AM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:05:19 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: DemonicChronic on February 03, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
You are completely nonsensical and should probably visit a shrink.
Nuka it's fine if you want to disagree and debate with Verbatim about this, but drop this type of shit when you do it. There is no reason you have to be so insulting when making a point, especially in this forum.

Also, stop lashing back so much, Verbatim. Like I said, this isn't the forum for it.

Can we not have anymore reason to flood reports from this thread? Heysoose cristo.
Did you even read the other posts? Verbatim started it with:

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:17:33 AM
"life is what you make of it, durr"
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:20:39 AM
. . .

OF COURSE THAT'S THE FUCKING GOAL. How the fuck could you NOT know that?
He did tell Verb to stop lashing back as well.
As if they're both equally in the wrong here.

Murder and theft are both crimes, that doesn't mean a judge implies equivalence by sentencing both to prison.

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 10:11:20 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:09:17 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:02:52 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 10:02:14 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:59:28 AM
Life isn't supposed to be fair.
All the more reason not to impose life on others.
Or better yet, to put them up to the challenge to see how far they can go.
Even I find that a horribly capricious sentiment. "Might as well just see how they do!"
I don't see the issue. That's basically what scientists do with lab rats.

You did not just compare the imposition of life with efforts to remedy the disutility of such an imposition. . . Did you?

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 03, 2015, 10:12:04 AM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:09:50 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:07:52 AM
Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:05:19 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: DemonicChronic on February 03, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
You are completely nonsensical and should probably visit a shrink.
Nuka it's fine if you want to disagree and debate with Verbatim about this, but drop this type of shit when you do it. There is no reason you have to be so insulting when making a point, especially in this forum.

Also, stop lashing back so much, Verbatim. Like I said, this isn't the forum for it.

Can we not have anymore reason to flood reports from this thread? Heysoose cristo.
Did you even read the other posts? Verbatim started it with:

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:17:33 AM
"life is what you make of it, durr"
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:20:39 AM
. . .

OF COURSE THAT'S THE FUCKING GOAL. How the fuck could you NOT know that?
He did tell Verb to stop lashing back as well.
As if they're both equally in the wrong here.
Murder and theft are both crimes, that doesn't mean a judge implies equivalence by sentencing both to prison.

We're not talking about murder or theft, we're talking about written insults.

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 10:12:38 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:08:30 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:05:14 AM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:03:36 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:59:53 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:57:58 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 09:52:46 AM
What sense does it make for a species to force its own extinction because it cannot fulfill a logically impossible moral requirement?
Perfect sense. I don't know what's so troubling about it, to be honest. You're going to have to tell me.
What part of "logically impossible" do you need me to clarify?
I'd like you to clarify why not having kids--if taken as a moral imperative--is at all logical impossible.

Drawing a triangle with four sides? THAT's logically impossible.
Verbatim's primary argument is that conception is wrong because the one being conceived cannot consent beforehand. But how does that which does not exist consent, or do anything at all for that matter?
The point is one of imposition not coercion. A foetus can't consent to its mother drinking heavily while pregnant, but that's no justification for the imposition of serious deficiencies onto the foetus.
But a fetus exists.

And so does the potential disutility which comes with the imposition of life. . .

DAS B00T x2 · February 03, 2015, 10:12:41 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:09:17 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:02:52 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 10:02:14 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:59:28 AM
Life isn't supposed to be fair.
All the more reason not to impose life on others.
Or better yet, to put them up to the challenge to see how far they can go.
Even I find that a horribly capricious sentiment. "Might as well just see how they do!"
I don't see the issue. That's basically what scientists do with lab rats.

The rats have a specific purpose. What scientific experiments are your potential children participating in?

Verbatim · February 03, 2015, 10:12:44 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:09:17 AM

I don't see the issue. That's basically what scientists do with lab rats.

Scientists are doing productive things with their specimens for the benefit of, you know, science.

People don't have kids for the same reasons. At all. Not even close.

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 10:14:10 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:11:29 AM

Yes.

Wouldn't that imply a lack of objective morality?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 03, 2015, 10:14:15 AM

Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:12:04 AM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:09:50 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:07:52 AM
Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:05:19 AM
Quote from: Kupo on February 03, 2015, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: DemonicChronic on February 03, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
You are completely nonsensical and should probably visit a shrink.
Nuka it's fine if you want to disagree and debate with Verbatim about this, but drop this type of shit when you do it. There is no reason you have to be so insulting when making a point, especially in this forum.

Also, stop lashing back so much, Verbatim. Like I said, this isn't the forum for it.

Can we not have anymore reason to flood reports from this thread? Heysoose cristo.
Did you even read the other posts? Verbatim started it with:

Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:17:33 AM
"life is what you make of it, durr"
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 09:20:39 AM
. . .

OF COURSE THAT'S THE FUCKING GOAL. How the fuck could you NOT know that?
He did tell Verb to stop lashing back as well.
As if they're both equally in the wrong here.
Murder and theft are both crimes, that doesn't mean a judge implies equivalence by sentencing both to prison.
We're not talking about murder or theft, we're talking about written insults.

It's a metaphor my dear. Severity has nothing to do with it; regardless of who insulted who first or worst, they both were shitslinging where it's prohibited. He told them both to calm down, this should be a non-issue.

Verbatim · February 03, 2015, 10:14:32 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:11:29 AM

Yes.

Well, you're wrong.

More Than Mortal · February 03, 2015, 10:15:16 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:12:48 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:11:20 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:09:17 AM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:02:52 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 10:02:14 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:59:28 AM
Life isn't supposed to be fair.
All the more reason not to impose life on others.
Or better yet, to put them up to the challenge to see how far they can go.
Even I find that a horribly capricious sentiment. "Might as well just see how they do!"
I don't see the issue. That's basically what scientists do with lab rats.
You did not just compare the imposition of life with efforts to remedy the disutility of such an imposition. . . Did you?
That I did. Is it really so shocking?

Considering the utility of the latter is only necessitated by the disutility of the former. . . Yes, it is.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 03, 2015, 10:15:34 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:11:29 AM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:08:08 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:06:26 AM
Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 03, 2015, 10:02:32 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:01:54 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 03, 2015, 10:00:45 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 09:56:17 AM
Because there's nothing inherently wrong with suffering, which seems to be the entire reason for wanting to eliminate it.
For the fifth time, it's NOT.

There's nothing inherently wrong with suffering--that doesn't mean it HAS to happen. That doesn't mean it HAS to exist. Invariably, it is BETTER if there is NO suffering.
What's the point of nonexistence?
Conversely, what's the point of existence?
There isn't, until you give it purpose.
And giving something purpose is what everything's about.

The universe will continue to exist with life with it as much as we want or don't want it to. To appreciate it for its beauty and accomplishments is better than to sit around pouting about how you with everything was an empty void of nothingness.
So the point of existence is subjective?
Yes.

That would also include the possibility that any number of persons don't find a purpose in existence, right?

gats · February 03, 2015, 10:16:27 AM

I'm not opposed to the idea, it's just that it will never become widespread and popular so I would end up wasting my time.

Verbatim · February 03, 2015, 10:17:24 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:16:13 AM

Everything in life is basically a test to see how far you go.

Who are you to impose some stupid test on someone?

Aether · February 03, 2015, 10:17:24 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:10:45 AM

The issue isn't specific to this thread. I was referring more to his overall behavior.
Also I see no reason for this thread to be locked.

Verbatim can be abrasive elsewhere so long as he doesn't harass users specifically and consistently. However this forum is different and I want you to both, and hell, anyone else who joined the insult party to stop here.

Now that that's been clarified (I hope), lets drop this discussion and get this thread back on topic. (Looking at you as well, Kupo and Prime Meridia.)

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 03, 2015, 10:17:53 AM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:16:54 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:14:10 AM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on February 03, 2015, 10:11:29 AM
Yes.
Wouldn't that imply a lack of objective morality?
Who said morality was a part of any of this?

Morality is integral to the argument for anti-natalism.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 03, 2015, 10:19:13 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 03, 2015, 10:12:38 AM

potential

That right there. Why should we put a precedence on those who can exist but don't?

At least in my opinion, we should worry about the people who already exist before we worry about those who are yet to exist. What we already have is more important than what we can have.