Healthy 24-year-old woman granted right to euthanasia in Belgium

More Than Mortal · July 09, 2015, 02:11:54 PM

Due to her being a long-time sufferer of suicidal depression.

I really, really don't know what to think of this.

The Lord Slide Rule · July 09, 2015, 02:13:49 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on July 09, 2015, 02:11:54 PM

Due to her being a long-time sufferer of suicidal depression.

I really, really don't know what to think of this.

Article makes it sound like there's no helping her otherwise.

Verbatim · July 09, 2015, 02:16:54 PM

Good.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · July 09, 2015, 02:21:29 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

The Lord Ruler · July 09, 2015, 02:24:26 PM

I think that's perfectly acceptable.

Quote

In the Netherlands, the first country to legalize euthanasia, sick children are allowed to request it, but only if they are 12 years or older.

Not too sure how I feel how this part though. I think 12 is too young to decide that.

Mr. Psychologist · July 09, 2015, 02:30:32 PM

Ehh, this is one of those particularly dodgy issues for obvious reasons.

I think all things considered, if she's been stuck with depression for the best part of her life (guessing by childhood they mean 8/9 years old) so 15 years with it and no improvement? I'd hope that they really had tried everything in that space of time, which isn't an unreasonable expectation. If it boils down to she is going to spend the rest of her life in a psych ward bouncing from one attempt to the other and there really is no medication or therapy that can help, it is permissible to alleviate the suffering.

Despite a bit of a shitfest a little while back, I've thought more on the matter somewhat and I think that it could do with clarifying a bit for my stance. Suicide is to be prevented, simple as. Someone who has the potential to get better rather than end as a stain on the pavement should be given that chance. If someone cannot be helped by treatment, with some of the last resorts/experimental therapies also failing then just as I would argue for someone's right to die peacefully rather than painfully from cancer I would say euthanasia for cases like that (and like this one) can be acceptable.

Life might be suffering, but there is a limit to how much suffering it is worth. Especially when it becomes nothing but suffering.

eggsalad · July 09, 2015, 02:54:44 PM

I don't enjoy the idea of someone being forced to endure torment against their will.

Jocephalopod · July 09, 2015, 03:08:10 PM

Her life her choice

Saves some money ass well

Elai · July 09, 2015, 03:11:35 PM

This can only be a good thing.

Flee · July 09, 2015, 03:12:28 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Flee · July 09, 2015, 03:19:34 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

challengerX · July 09, 2015, 04:07:32 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

More Than Mortal · July 09, 2015, 04:25:48 PM

Quote from: Flee on July 09, 2015, 03:19:34 PM

This is not the first time this has happened, by the way. This isn't a landmark case, so I'm not sure why this is making the news now. If anyone cares, I can elaborate on the Belgian euthanasia law. Medical law isn't my field of expertise, but I'm still more than familiar with it.

Well I'm interested in whether you think this is right?

Since I've experienced depression, I'm obviously not as biased. So it'd be nice to get the perspective of somebody in the know about the legal aspects.

The Lord Ruler · July 09, 2015, 05:10:20 PM

Quote from: Flee on July 09, 2015, 03:12:28 PM

Quote from: The Lord Ruler on July 09, 2015, 02:24:26 PM
Quote
In the Netherlands, the first country to legalize euthanasia, sick children are allowed to request it, but only if they are 12 years or older.

Not too sure how I feel how this part though. I think 12 is too young to decide that.
There's no age limit here.

So an 8 year old can decide to be euthanized?

DAS B00T x2 · July 09, 2015, 05:15:27 PM

Like... I get the right to bodily autonomy, but I can't say I support her decision.

Flee · July 09, 2015, 05:27:17 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Flee · July 09, 2015, 05:27:44 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Korra · July 09, 2015, 05:42:58 PM

My heart says "that's bad, very bad." but my brain says "I don't care."

Hmm...lawful suicide is a dodgy subject.

Turkey · July 09, 2015, 05:56:44 PM

I wonder if they would approve a right to self-harm.

Naru · July 09, 2015, 05:58:01 PM

And what seems to be the problem, exactly?

More Than Mortal · July 09, 2015, 06:03:20 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on July 09, 2015, 05:56:44 PM

I wonder if they would approve a right to self-harm.

That's a rather specious comparison, don't you think?

Super Irish · July 09, 2015, 06:04:21 PM

Wow, not entirely sure how I feel about that, though that title is a bit misleading. "She's got depression, but otherwise healthy"... yeah, and I'm having a heart attack, but otherwise I'm healthy.

Anyway, I suppose it's ok seeing as as there's some procedure to it, and I guess it beats the woman deciding to jump in front of a train or something and cause psychological trauma to someone else (or in some cases, kill other people as well as themselves - now that's evil).

July 09, 2015, 06:26:38 PM

This is fantastic news, but it really shouldn't be news at all. It should be accepted and commonplace everywhere.

Turkey · July 09, 2015, 06:36:20 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on July 09, 2015, 06:03:20 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on July 09, 2015, 05:56:44 PM
I wonder if they would approve a right to self-harm.
That's a rather specious comparison, don't you think?

Well I obviously don't think so, or I wouldn't have made it.

More Than Mortal · July 09, 2015, 06:41:13 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on July 09, 2015, 06:36:20 PM

Well I obviously don't think so, or I wouldn't have made it.

I'm afraid I don't really see the connection. There seems to be quite an obvious distinction between mutilating oneself out of mental instability and then making the decision to end your seemingly permanent suffering in a peaceful way. One causes suffering, the other relieves it. Care to elucidate your position?

Bearing in mind I don't really know whether I agree with it or not just yet.

Turkey · July 09, 2015, 06:53:06 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on July 09, 2015, 06:41:13 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on July 09, 2015, 06:36:20 PM
Well I obviously don't think so, or I wouldn't have made it.
I'm afraid I don't really see the connection. There seems to be quite an obvious distinction between mutilating oneself out of mental instability and then making the decision to end your seemingly permanent suffering in a peaceful way. One causes suffering, the other relieves it. Care to elucidate your position?

Self-harm relieves suffering. Depressed individuals use it as a means of controlling and corporealizing their mental pain; in effect it's a form of self-treatment, even though it does absolutely nothing to improve their wellbeing. Suicide is an extension of self-harm in the sense that it is perceived as a means of retaking control of their pain and faculties while simultaneously bringing relief to said pain. Ask any suicidal person and to one degree or another they'll all agree that they don't wish to be dead but simply see no alternative to end their suffering. So if doctors are willing to legitimize death as a treatment of sorts for treatment-resistant depression, why not self-harm? What if the patient could remain alive, with symptoms acceptably mitigated (as indicated by lack of suicidal tendencies), by regular self-harm?

More Than Mortal · July 09, 2015, 06:55:59 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on July 09, 2015, 06:53:06 PM

So if doctors are willing to legitimize death as a treatment of sorts for treatment-resistant depression, why not self-harm? What if the patient could remain alive, with symptoms acceptably mitigated (as indicated by lack of suicidal tendencies), by regular self-harm?

I'll have to think about that for a while before I can form an answer, to be honest.

If I can form an answer. Questions absolutely worth considering, though. Thanks for elaborating.