Quote from: Eliab on March 22, 2016, 11:20:06 AMI was literally in Brussels not 3 days ago. Holy shit.I'm there every single day, the metro being 5 minutes from my usual route.. Surreal stuff.
I was literally in Brussels not 3 days ago. Holy shit.
GUESS THE RELIGION
Prime Minister Charles Michel is speaking at a press conference in Brussels, in both French and Flemmish:Michel announced that there will be three days of national mourningBelgium wants to return to a normal life as soon as possible, he said.Liberty has been struck at its heart, as it was in Paris recently, and was in in London and Madrid in the recent past, Michel said.βIt is a common fight, it is a fight without borders,β Michel said. Belgium is very mobilised to succeed in the face of this tragic event, which has struck us in our hearts.βWe are determined to defend our freedom,β Michel said will tears in his eyes.
Quote from: Mordo on March 22, 2016, 10:36:42 AM it's yet to go through a period of reformation as Christianity and Judaism did.Not sure what you're getting at with this. The Schism wasn't openly violent, sure, but there were violent events surrounding it (Massacre of the Latins, etc). The Protestant Reformation was ridiculously violent. I don't blame Luther for all the destruction, but a ton of princes saw it as an opportunity to gain independence and liquidate sweet sweet church assets, leading to like a century of warfare, and leaving Europe's cultures divided along yet another line. Christianity pre-Reformation wasn't even close to as brutal as modern Wahhabi Islam, relative to the world around it. The truth is it was never Christianity that wasn't chill, it was the practitioners, and they just switched from killing each other for religious reasons to killing each other for various political or ideological reasons after the """""Enlightenment"""""".And a Jewish reformation? Judaism's never had such a thing, as far as I'm aware, it's just changed over the centuries as the Jewish people's situation changed. Modern Judaism is very different from Judaism in Christ's time, for example. They never really had the opportunity for such a thing. Even today, Judaism barely exists as a religion. A ton of them, possibly the majority, don't even believe in God. In Israel the religion is more important as a component of Israeli nationalism than as a serious faith.
it's yet to go through a period of reformation as Christianity and Judaism did.
Quote from: Mordo on March 22, 2016, 12:57:07 PMQuote from: Yulius Kaisar on March 22, 2016, 12:53:42 PMQuote from: Mordo on March 22, 2016, 10:36:42 AM it's yet to go through a period of reformation as Christianity and Judaism did.Not sure what you're getting at with this. The Schism wasn't openly violent, sure, but there were violent events surrounding it (Massacre of the Latins, etc). The Protestant Reformation was ridiculously violent. I don't blame Luther for all the destruction, but a ton of princes saw it as an opportunity to gain independence and liquidate sweet sweet church assets, leading to like a century of warfare, and leaving Europe's cultures divided along yet another line. Christianity pre-Reformation wasn't even close to as brutal as modern Wahhabi Islam, relative to the world around it. The truth is it was never Christianity that wasn't chill, it was the practitioners, and they just switched from killing each other for religious reasons to killing each other for various political or ideological reasons after the """""Enlightenment"""""".And a Jewish reformation? Judaism's never had such a thing, as far as I'm aware, it's just changed over the centuries as the Jewish people's situation changed. Modern Judaism is very different from Judaism in Christ's time, for example. They never really had the opportunity for such a thing. Even today, Judaism barely exists as a religion. A ton of them, possibly the majority, don't even believe in God. In Israel the religion is more important as a component of Israeli nationalism than as a serious faith.I'm talking about the integration and assimilation of values within Western society senpai. Islam's quite patently yet to go through that phase where their religion doesn't take precedent over Western customs, laws and values. Christianity and Judaism have.But the values of "western" society are Christian in origin. The modern secular democracy might try to appropriate them, but their origins are invariably in this form of Christian thinking or that. The truth is, European Christianity just softened and jellified into modern secular Europe. It lost its teeth. Something similar is beginning to happen to Christianity in the US. Sad, considering how strong it was in the past. Kierkegaard warns about this "Christendom" problem.The process is almost complete among the Jews. It is basically a non-religion at this point, more of an ethnic tradition than anything else. I've encountered exactly one genuinely religious Jew in my entire life, and I'm a fucking theatre major. Outside of the handful of Orthodox Jews in Israel, the Jewish faith has lost its fire and zeal.Islam is interesting because different wings of it are recovering from and suffering from the problem at the same time. You'll find Muslim diaspora in Europe are far more immersed and fanatical in their religion than their cousins back home. There is a reason for this (probably involving Saudi funding), but I don't claim to know it.The same is true of Judaism.
Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on March 22, 2016, 12:53:42 PMQuote from: Mordo on March 22, 2016, 10:36:42 AM it's yet to go through a period of reformation as Christianity and Judaism did.Not sure what you're getting at with this. The Schism wasn't openly violent, sure, but there were violent events surrounding it (Massacre of the Latins, etc). The Protestant Reformation was ridiculously violent. I don't blame Luther for all the destruction, but a ton of princes saw it as an opportunity to gain independence and liquidate sweet sweet church assets, leading to like a century of warfare, and leaving Europe's cultures divided along yet another line. Christianity pre-Reformation wasn't even close to as brutal as modern Wahhabi Islam, relative to the world around it. The truth is it was never Christianity that wasn't chill, it was the practitioners, and they just switched from killing each other for religious reasons to killing each other for various political or ideological reasons after the """""Enlightenment"""""".And a Jewish reformation? Judaism's never had such a thing, as far as I'm aware, it's just changed over the centuries as the Jewish people's situation changed. Modern Judaism is very different from Judaism in Christ's time, for example. They never really had the opportunity for such a thing. Even today, Judaism barely exists as a religion. A ton of them, possibly the majority, don't even believe in God. In Israel the religion is more important as a component of Israeli nationalism than as a serious faith.I'm talking about the integration and assimilation of values within Western society senpai. Islam's quite patently yet to go through that phase where their religion doesn't take precedent over Western customs, laws and values. Christianity and Judaism have.
Quote from: Mordo on March 22, 2016, 01:17:26 PMRight, ace stuff in the history lessons lad but kinda missing the point entirely here.I just don't think the notion that Islam needs, or even hasn't had, a "reformation" is correct. Islam will never be Western in the sense that Islam will never be Christianity, and the West is at this point tied to inherently Christian notions.Could Islam be westernized? I guess, but it'd just mean the next "problematic ideology" will pop up sooner or later.
Right, ace stuff in the history lessons lad but kinda missing the point entirely here.
Trump called out Brussels by name as a terriost target months ago.
Quote from: The Lord Protractor on March 22, 2016, 01:17:56 PMTrump called out Brussels by name as a terriost target months ago.What's your point.
It probably was a revenge attack for the arrest made the other day
Quote from: Mordo on March 22, 2016, 10:36:42 AMThe argument has never been about bashing Muslims simply for being MuslimsI'm just saying. That's what islamophobia means, and if that's not what your argument is about, then you're good in my book.I fucking hate Islam from the very bottom of my heart, and with every attack, it sinks even further. But you'll never see me say "fuck Muslims" or "fuck Islamists." Even if they attacked my home state. I'm not a reactionary and I never will be.
The argument has never been about bashing Muslims simply for being Muslims
Terrorist attack in Brussels, 26 killed 100+ injured
