FL bill to fine/jail trans people

More Than Mortal · February 09, 2015, 12:49:37 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 09, 2015, 12:40:59 PM

so I'm not sure what the point of this bill is

Neither am I, but. . . Y'know, that's politics. Like I said to Kupo, my national parliament has banned the production of certain kinds of pornography. It's most likely that he's doing it for the sake of legislation under his name.

Your ignorance of a potential other motivation doesn't immediately mean the only reasonable conclusion is transphobia. That's a fucking serious allegation of bigotry and you know it, tantamount to racism. If you're going to accuse somebody of it, have some tangible evidence besides a very vague bill and hurr durr republicans.

Mad Max · February 09, 2015, 12:50:58 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 12:49:37 PM

That's a fucking serious allegation of bigotry and you know it, tantamount to racism.

...not coming out of the GOP camp, it isn't. They've been fighting same sex marriage and LGBT-rights tooth and nail.

More Than Mortal · February 09, 2015, 12:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 09, 2015, 12:50:58 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 12:49:37 PM
That's a fucking serious allegation of bigotry and you know it, tantamount to racism.
...not coming out of the GOP camp, it isn't. They've been fighting same sex marriage and LGBT-rights tooth and nail.

We doing guilt by association now? You can criticise the policies of the Republican Party generally and the moral underpinnings of its religious support base, but if you're going to start attaching allegations to names you need something a lot more fucking substantial.

You can't just say, "Well, the fact that he's a Republican means I need less evidence for these allegations". THAT is prejudiced.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 09, 2015, 12:58:13 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 12:47:12 PM

Quote from: Kupo on February 09, 2015, 12:40:47 PM
Bumping the penalty up to a felony is unnecessarily draconian.
What? I explicitly said it was a misdemeanour. . . Not a felony. Nonetheless, I actually agree that it's unnecessarily Draconian to have these kinds of punishments for using the wrong bathroom. . . I said it wouldn't have been Draconian if it didn't change the existing law (as you implied it didn't), but it does.

Quote
That and the fact that it's a waste of time is only evidence in favor of arguments that it's discriminatory. I don't know what kind of gymnastics you performed to reach the opposite conclusion.
Very inflexible gymnastics.

If it changes nothing, by virtue of just being in line with existing law, it can't be discriminatory because it changes nothing.

A potential jail sentence implies that it's a felony, unless I'm just rusty on my civics.

The fact that it pointlessly enforces something that's already the law is an obvious sign of a discriminatory background. The only purpose in doing such a thing is to express a point of view. He likely (hopefully) knows that this legislation has zero chances of getting signed into law, but he proposed it to make a point.

More Than Mortal · February 09, 2015, 12:59:57 PM

Quote from: Kupo on February 09, 2015, 12:58:13 PM

A potential jail sentence implies that it's a felony, unless I'm just rusty on my civics.

It's only a felony if the potential sentence runs over a year.

Quote

It's discriminatory because it pointlessly enforces something that's already the law.

That's literally nonsensical.

The point is, however, it's not already the bloody law. I even agree it's fucking stupid.

Stupidity, however, isn't quite the same as transphobia.

Mad Max · February 09, 2015, 01:01:59 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 12:59:57 PM

Stupidity, however, isn't quite the same as transphobia.

But the GOP and their supporters have demonstrated a history of anti-LGBT positions and attempted legislation. It's not exactly a stretch.

More Than Mortal · February 09, 2015, 01:03:24 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 09, 2015, 01:01:59 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 12:59:57 PM
Stupidity, however, isn't quite the same as transphobia.
But the GOP and their supporters have demonstrated a history of anti-LGBT positions and attempted legislation. It's not exactly a stretch.

Quote

You can criticise the policies of the Republican Party generally and the moral underpinnings of its religious support base, but if you're going to start attaching allegations to names you need something a lot more fucking substantial.

You can't just say, "Well, the fact that he's a Republican means I need less evidence for these allegations". THAT is prejudiced.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · February 09, 2015, 01:07:31 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 12:59:57 PM

Quote from: Kupo on February 09, 2015, 12:58:13 PM
A potential jail sentence implies that it's a felony, unless I'm just rusty on my civics.
It's only a felony if the potential sentence runs over a year.

Quote
It's discriminatory because it pointlessly enforces something that's already the law.
That's literally nonsensical.

The point is, however, it's not already the bloody law. I even agree it's fucking stupid.

Stupidity, however, isn't quite the same as transphobia.

It's pretty much the law already >.> You can't just go into the wrong bathroom and get off scot-free, not even Florida's that fucked up.

And that it can be argued that it's not transphobia is the whole point of insidious legislation like that.

Mad Max · February 09, 2015, 01:09:30 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 01:03:24 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 09, 2015, 01:01:59 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 12:59:57 PM
Stupidity, however, isn't quite the same as transphobia.
But the GOP and their supporters have demonstrated a history of anti-LGBT positions and attempted legislation. It's not exactly a stretch.
Quote
You can criticise the policies of the Republican Party generally and the moral underpinnings of its religious support base, but if you're going to start attaching allegations to names you need something a lot more fucking substantial.

You can't just say, "Well, the fact that he's a Republican means I need less evidence for these allegations". THAT is prejudiced.

This isn't a court of law, it's public opinion.

More Than Mortal · February 09, 2015, 01:22:02 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 09, 2015, 01:09:30 PM

it's public opinion.

HA, so are things like anti-LGBT views that you--rightfully--criticise. Being 'opinion' doesn't grant it any form of legitimacy or freedom from criticism. I'm not asking you to move the world, I'm asking you to not assume people are transphobic just because a strongly Democratic website managed to shoehorn their biases into a vague bill from a GOP member.

If you're going to insist on calling this guy--specifically this representative and his bill--transphobic on that basis, you're both bigoted and stupid.

Mad Max · February 09, 2015, 01:29:10 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 09, 2015, 01:22:02 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 09, 2015, 01:09:30 PM
it's public opinion.
HA, so are things like anti-LGBT views that you--rightfully--criticise. Being 'opinion' doesn't grant it any form of legitimacy or freedom from criticism. I'm not asking you to move the world, I'm asking you to not assume people are transphobic just because a strongly Democratic website managed to shoehorn their biases into a vague bill from a GOP member.

If you're going to insist on calling this guy--specifically this representative and his bill--transphobic on that basis, you're both bigoted and stupid.

I applaud you for your objectivity. I'm just not convinced.

More Than Mortal · February 09, 2015, 01:30:18 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on February 09, 2015, 01:29:10 PM

I'm just not convinced.

So be it.

I think I've represented my case well enough, so I'll leave it here.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · February 09, 2015, 01:46:01 PM