Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

It is known that in Greek mythology, the Titan named Prometheus stole fire from the Olympian gods and gave it to mankind. He was punished later by Zeus for giving this knowledge to the humans.

Now in the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Snake (Lucifer/Satan) told Eve to eat from the apple of the Tree of Knowledge to acquire knowledge previously kept away by Yahweh. Why would Yahweh purposely keep his own creations ignorant and stupid? Why is the supposed evil the only one who seeks to enlighten humanity?

Satan wasn't trying to "enlighten" humanity with knowledge. What he sought to do, was corrupt humanity with sin.
The world was perfect before the fall. Everything was in harmony, peace. Adam and Eve walked with God, and lived happily. They didn't have to work or anything. Animals didn't kill each other, but lived together in harmony as well.

You introduce sin: Pure unrighteousness. It destroyed that peace. Corrupted Adam and Eve. You could say "but they didn't know they were doing something wrong right?" Well........they did. Because they didn't know good and evil, but they knew what God had commanded them. They knew what they could and couldn't do.

God didn't keep His creations, Adam and Eve, completely ignorant. They had emotion, felt love, all those things.
What did they know? They knew that they should obey God. They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

Who is truly the evil one here? The one who gives knowledge or the one who keeps you away from it on purpose?

Once again, back to what I said. And I'll provide some scripture here:

Genesis 2:16-17

Quote

“And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’”

If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 12:22:35 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

It is known that in Greek mythology, the Titan named Prometheus stole fire from the Olympian gods and gave it to mankind. He was punished later by Zeus for giving this knowledge to the humans.

Now in the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Snake (Lucifer/Satan) told Eve to eat from the apple of the Tree of Knowledge to acquire knowledge previously kept away by Yahweh. Why would Yahweh purposely keep his own creations ignorant and stupid? Why is the supposed evil the only one who seeks to enlighten humanity?

Satan wasn't trying to "enlighten" humanity with knowledge. What he sought to do, was corrupt humanity with sin.
The world was perfect before the fall. Everything was in harmony, peace. Adam and Eve walked with God, and lived happily. They didn't have to work or anything. Animals didn't kill each other, but lived together in harmony as well.

You introduce sin: Pure unrighteousness. It destroyed that peace. Corrupted Adam and Eve. You could say "but they didn't know they were doing something wrong right?" Well........they did. Because they didn't know good and evil, but they knew what God had commanded them. They knew what they could and couldn't do.

God didn't keep His creations, Adam and Eve, completely ignorant. They had emotion, felt love, all those things.
What did they know? They knew that they should obey God. They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

Who is truly the evil one here? The one who gives knowledge or the one who keeps you away from it on purpose?

Once again, back to what I said. And I'll provide some scripture here:

Genesis 2:16-17

Quote

“And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’”

If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.

Corrupt? With knowledge from the Tree OF KNOWLEDGE. Why is God forbidding mankind from knowledge?

And let me give you another example of Yahweh's...demeanor, why does he tell King Saul to essentially eradicate a group of people? Why did Yahweh tell Moses and his group to kill an innocent man for picking sticks for his fire just because it was Saturday (Sabbath)? Why kill thousands of innocent Egyptians? Why the suffering and destruction? Why choose a group of people above the others instead of bringing salvation to all humans?

I can ask a lot of things but these are the first that came to mind. Yahweh has literally killed more people in our entire history than Lucifer.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:07:56 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 12:22:35 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

It is known that in Greek mythology, the Titan named Prometheus stole fire from the Olympian gods and gave it to mankind. He was punished later by Zeus for giving this knowledge to the humans.

Now in the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Snake (Lucifer/Satan) told Eve to eat from the apple of the Tree of Knowledge to acquire knowledge previously kept away by Yahweh. Why would Yahweh purposely keep his own creations ignorant and stupid? Why is the supposed evil the only one who seeks to enlighten humanity?

Satan wasn't trying to "enlighten" humanity with knowledge. What he sought to do, was corrupt humanity with sin.
The world was perfect before the fall. Everything was in harmony, peace. Adam and Eve walked with God, and lived happily. They didn't have to work or anything. Animals didn't kill each other, but lived together in harmony as well.

You introduce sin: Pure unrighteousness. It destroyed that peace. Corrupted Adam and Eve. You could say "but they didn't know they were doing something wrong right?" Well........they did. Because they didn't know good and evil, but they knew what God had commanded them. They knew what they could and couldn't do.

God didn't keep His creations, Adam and Eve, completely ignorant. They had emotion, felt love, all those things.
What did they know? They knew that they should obey God. They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

Who is truly the evil one here? The one who gives knowledge or the one who keeps you away from it on purpose?

Once again, back to what I said. And I'll provide some scripture here:

Genesis 2:16-17

Quote

“And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’”

If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.

Corrupt? With knowledge from the Tree OF KNOWLEDGE. Why is God forbidding mankind from knowledge?

And let me give you another example of Yahweh's...demeanor, why does he tell King Saul to essentially eradicate a group of people? Why did Yahweh tell Moses and his group to kill an innocent man for picking sticks for his fire just because it was Saturday (Sabbath)? Why kill thousands of innocent Egyptians? Why the suffering and destruction? Why choose a group of people above the others instead of bringing salvation to all humans?

I can ask a lot of things but these are the first that came to mind. Yahweh has literally killed more people in our entire history than Lucifer.

Well religion in general.
Rarely do people kill in the name of the sun or atheism....
I'm not tipping my fedora but *Tips fedora*

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:16:30 AM

Quote from: TBlocks on January 08, 2015, 01:13:39 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:07:56 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 12:22:35 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

It is known that in Greek mythology, the Titan named Prometheus stole fire from the Olympian gods and gave it to mankind. He was punished later by Zeus for giving this knowledge to the humans.

Now in the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Snake (Lucifer/Satan) told Eve to eat from the apple of the Tree of Knowledge to acquire knowledge previously kept away by Yahweh. Why would Yahweh purposely keep his own creations ignorant and stupid? Why is the supposed evil the only one who seeks to enlighten humanity?

Satan wasn't trying to "enlighten" humanity with knowledge. What he sought to do, was corrupt humanity with sin.
The world was perfect before the fall. Everything was in harmony, peace. Adam and Eve walked with God, and lived happily. They didn't have to work or anything. Animals didn't kill each other, but lived together in harmony as well.

You introduce sin: Pure unrighteousness. It destroyed that peace. Corrupted Adam and Eve. You could say "but they didn't know they were doing something wrong right?" Well........they did. Because they didn't know good and evil, but they knew what God had commanded them. They knew what they could and couldn't do.

God didn't keep His creations, Adam and Eve, completely ignorant. They had emotion, felt love, all those things.
What did they know? They knew that they should obey God. They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

Who is truly the evil one here? The one who gives knowledge or the one who keeps you away from it on purpose?

Once again, back to what I said. And I'll provide some scripture here:

Genesis 2:16-17

Quote

“And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’”

If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.

Corrupt? With knowledge from the Tree OF KNOWLEDGE. Why is God forbidding mankind from knowledge?

And let me give you another example of Yahweh's...demeanor, why does he tell King Saul to essentially eradicate a group of people? Why did Yahweh tell Moses and his group to kill an innocent man for picking sticks for his fire just because it was Saturday (Sabbath)? Why kill thousands of innocent Egyptians? Why the suffering and destruction? Why choose a group of people above the others instead of bringing salvation to all humans?

I can ask a lot of things but these are the first that came to mind. Yahweh has literally killed more people in our entire history than Lucifer.

Well religion in general.
Rarely do people kill in the name of the sun or atheism....
I'm not tipping my fedora but *Tips fedora*

Its pretty obvious that the Old Testament Yahweh is a pretty psychopathic being, treating anyone who wasn't part of his "People/Jews" with distaste. He was even envious, downright hateful and vengeful.

Again I have a feeling that the OT god was a lot more of a rule setter than a true to the facts story.
Although with that being said he instantly becomes lower due to humans basically creating the time before the NT.

Why choose a group of people above the others instead of bringing salvation to all humans?

Reading through the Old Testament is not for the faint of heart.  The Lord God of the Scriptures says this about himself.  “For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.”  (Deuteronomy 4:24)  Who can warm up to such a God?  Who can love a God described by the psalmist with the words, “you hate all who do wrong”  (Ps. 5:5)?  Maybe I don’t want to wade through this whole book.

So sometimes people jump to the New Testament and start to read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.  They seem so different.  Jesus hugged the children and blessed the babies.  Jesus filled stomachs with food and filled boats with fish.  Jesus raised a dead man to his feet.  Jesus ate with the outcasts, forgiving the scandalous of society.  Jesus rescued an adulteress from stoning and befriended a despised tax collector.  Everyone knows that Jesus proclaimed, “Love your enemies.”

If the God of the Bible is one Lord God, why does there seem to be such a difference in the way the two testaments depict him?    Remember that in Old Testament times God intervened on behalf of one nation, a nation graciously chosen to be used by the Lord as a vehicle of his word and promises.  That nation was Israel, a nation set apart and guarded by God so that the Lord could keep his promise of sending his anointed one, the Christ.  So God did act zealously to defeat Israel’s enemies, because those enemies endangered God’s plan of salvation. We do see specific commands from God to use the swords of his Old Testament people as swords of judgment against unbelievers who stood in the way of the Lord’s plan.   But, with the birth of the Savior Jesus and the completion of God’s salvation plan, God no longer needed the nation of Israel to play its special role.

More importantly, careful Bible readers will notice no difference in the character of the Lord God.  Both testaments describe God as a God who condemns and a God who forgives. Both testaments describe a God of wrath and a God of love. For example, the God of the Old Testament is the God who lovingly provided water and manna and quail to a nation that did not deserve it.  God’s grace was constant in the face of human unfaithfulness.  Conversely, the God of the New Testament is also the same Lord who said, “whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)

All of Scripture proclaims this Lord God who is constant and does not change.  God revealed himself as a holy and just God who punishes all sin.  He also reveals himself as a loving God who sent a Substitute to take that punishment in our place.  In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, chapter 53, we read:   “He was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. … The LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.”   And in a New Testament book we read:   “God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them.   God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” ( 2 Corinthians 5:19,21)

The message throughout the Bible is a message of law and gospel.  The law shows us our sin.  The gospel is good news that shows us our Savior from sin, Jesus the Messiah.  So we rejoice in the unchanging message:  “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”  (Romans 6:23).

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:07:56 AM

Why choose a group of people above the others instead of bringing salvation to all humans?

You posted much more, but I wanted to address this quickly. In the Old Testament, there are many prophecies foreshadowing Christ's birth, death, and resurrection. He would bring, as you asked,  "salvation to all humans".

Nobody was better than anyone else. Israel was chosen to be the ones who were used by God to be the forerunners of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Line of David was in Israel, and Jesus was a part of that. But truly, God could have used any people, tribe, nation.

And I found this article, which I thought explained it very nicely. I made the main point that is being made, larger in size. The rest you can read, but the main point is in that paragraph:

Quote

Reading through the Old Testament is not for the faint of heart.  The Lord God of the Scriptures says this about himself.  “For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.”  (Deuteronomy 4:24)  Who can warm up to such a God?  Who can love a God described by the psalmist with the words, “you hate all who do wrong”  (Ps. 5:5)?  Maybe I don’t want to wade through this whole book.

So sometimes people jump to the New Testament and start to read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.  They seem so different.  Jesus hugged the children and blessed the babies.  Jesus filled stomachs with food and filled boats with fish.  Jesus raised a dead man to his feet.  Jesus ate with the outcasts, forgiving the scandalous of society.  Jesus rescued an adulteress from stoning and befriended a despised tax collector.  Everyone knows that Jesus proclaimed, “Love your enemies.”

If the God of the Bible is one Lord God, why does there seem to be such a difference in the way the two testaments depict him?    Remember that in Old Testament times God intervened on behalf of one nation, a nation graciously chosen to be used by the Lord as a vehicle of his word and promises.  That nation was Israel, a nation set apart and guarded by God so that the Lord could keep his promise of sending his anointed one, the Christ.  So God did act zealously to defeat Israel’s enemies, because those enemies endangered God’s plan of salvation. We do see specific commands from God to use the swords of his Old Testament people as swords of judgment against unbelievers who stood in the way of the Lord’s plan.   But, with the birth of the Savior Jesus and the completion of God’s salvation plan, God no longer needed the nation of Israel to play its special role.

More importantly, careful Bible readers will notice no difference in the character of the Lord God.  Both testaments describe God as a God who condemns and a God who forgives. Both testaments describe a God of wrath and a God of love. For example, the God of the Old Testament is the God who lovingly provided water and manna and quail to a nation that did not deserve it.  God’s grace was constant in the face of human unfaithfulness.  Conversely, the God of the New Testament is also the same Lord who said, “whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)

All of Scripture proclaims this Lord God who is constant and does not change.  God revealed himself as a holy and just God who punishes all sin.  He also reveals himself as a loving God who sent a Substitute to take that punishment in our place.  In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, chapter 53, we read:   “He was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. … The LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.”   And in a New Testament book we read:   “God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them.   God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” ( 2 Corinthians 5:19,21)

The message throughout the Bible is a message of law and gospel.  The law shows us our sin.  The gospel is good news that shows us our Savior from sin, Jesus the Messiah.  So we rejoice in the unchanging message:  “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”  (Romans 6:23).

link to the article

Quote from: Nick McIntyre on January 08, 2015, 01:29:28 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 12:22:35 AM

They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

That's one thing that always bugged me:  Why was God such a fucking asshole as to put a tree like that in the middle of a field and tell Adam and Eve, "You better not touch that, that's the cookie jar.  Keep your hands off of it."

And then when they did, he fucking cast them out and cursed their descendants and the whole of Earth.  Like an asshole.

And literally make the one being that wanted to give you some cookies the most evil being in existence.

Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:21:59 AM

Quote from: TBlocks on January 08, 2015, 01:18:30 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:16:30 AM

Quote from: TBlocks on January 08, 2015, 01:13:39 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:07:56 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 12:22:35 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

It is known that in Greek mythology, the Titan named Prometheus stole fire from the Olympian gods and gave it to mankind. He was punished later by Zeus for giving this knowledge to the humans.

Now in the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Snake (Lucifer/Satan) told Eve to eat from the apple of the Tree of Knowledge to acquire knowledge previously kept away by Yahweh. Why would Yahweh purposely keep his own creations ignorant and stupid? Why is the supposed evil the only one who seeks to enlighten humanity?

Satan wasn't trying to "enlighten" humanity with knowledge. What he sought to do, was corrupt humanity with sin.
The world was perfect before the fall. Everything was in harmony, peace. Adam and Eve walked with God, and lived happily. They didn't have to work or anything. Animals didn't kill each other, but lived together in harmony as well.

You introduce sin: Pure unrighteousness. It destroyed that peace. Corrupted Adam and Eve. You could say "but they didn't know they were doing something wrong right?" Well........they did. Because they didn't know good and evil, but they knew what God had commanded them. They knew what they could and couldn't do.

God didn't keep His creations, Adam and Eve, completely ignorant. They had emotion, felt love, all those things.
What did they know? They knew that they should obey God. They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

Who is truly the evil one here? The one who gives knowledge or the one who keeps you away from it on purpose?

Once again, back to what I said. And I'll provide some scripture here:

Genesis 2:16-17

Quote

“And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’”

If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.

Corrupt? With knowledge from the Tree OF KNOWLEDGE. Why is God forbidding mankind from knowledge?

And let me give you another example of Yahweh's...demeanor, why does he tell King Saul to essentially eradicate a group of people? Why did Yahweh tell Moses and his group to kill an innocent man for picking sticks for his fire just because it was Saturday (Sabbath)? Why kill thousands of innocent Egyptians? Why the suffering and destruction? Why choose a group of people above the others instead of bringing salvation to all humans?

I can ask a lot of things but these are the first that came to mind. Yahweh has literally killed more people in our entire history than Lucifer.

Well religion in general.
Rarely do people kill in the name of the sun or atheism....
I'm not tipping my fedora but *Tips fedora*

Its pretty obvious that the Old Testament Yahweh is a pretty psychopathic being, treating anyone who wasn't part of his "People/Jews" with distaste. He was even envious, downright hateful and vengeful.

Again I have a feeling that the OT god was a lot more of a rule setter than a true to the facts story.
Although with that being said he instantly becomes lower due to humans basically creating the time before the NT.

Millions of people still believe in this divine psychopath, again no offense Rocket, but that Jesus guy was a real cool dude though...if he was real. I still don't know if Jesus was real or not, I would like him to have been but we only have the written accounts of the followers of the apostles.

No Jesus was definitely a real guy. (There were accounts from the Romans I believe.)Not positive but I'm pretty sure.

But Jesus had some of the best power tactics and power of suggestion and trickery ever.
Whether he was "The Son of God" is up for debate.
It's clear he was a real person.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 02:05:20 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 02:03:10 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:31:11 AM

Quote from: Nick McIntyre on January 08, 2015, 01:29:28 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 12:22:35 AM

They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

That's one thing that always bugged me:  Why was God such a fucking asshole as to put a tree like that in the middle of a field and tell Adam and Eve, "You better not touch that, that's the cookie jar.  Keep your hands off of it."

And then when they did, he fucking cast them out and cursed their descendants and the whole of Earth.  Like an asshole.

And literally make the one being that wanted to give you some cookies the most evil being in existence.

Here's where perspective matters. God is good, and righteous. Sin, is the opposite of that: unrighteousness, darkness, evil. It defiles, it corrupts.

So what does eating of the tree of knowledge do? Well that's the question.

Genesis 3:7

Quote

Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Sin comes into the picture, the very moment Adam and Eve eat of the tree. Eating of the tree didn't enlighten them, it corrupted them. They were perfect in every way, they would never work for food or die of old age.

They eat of the apple, then suddenly......everything goes wrong. They are aware of their nakedness and feel shame, they hide from God whom they loved so much. And what does God do when He discovers this? The first thing He does is curse the serpent.

Why curse it? Because God saw the serpent had destroyed the innocence of those He loved. And created a rift of sin, that divided them. Christ was the only way to bridge that divide.



Here is what happens immediately after the cursing of the serpent:

Genesis 3: 17-20

Quote

To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

All these results you see, they aren't God cursing them. "Cursed is the ground because of you".
He is saying their actions caused this suffering they will now experience.

Romans 6:23

Quote

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So you rather remain ignorant and stupid instead of having knowledge and awareness of your own actions? Knowledge that make you like gods, knowledge that make you live independent from this god and to live your own life?

But we weren't ignorant or stupid. The only difference was, we weren't in sin.
We had the freedom of choice, but we chose wrong. Adam and Eve knew what they did was wrong, since they were told not to do it, but the gravity of what they had done didn't sink in until after the fact. They felt shame and hid from God because of it.

You see it as "enlightenment" or realization, but this event isn't called "The fall of man" for nothing. It wasn't a step up, it was a leap off a cliff from perfection to imperfection.

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 07, 2015, 11:44:53 PM

It is known that in Greek mythology, the Titan named Prometheus stole fire from the Olympian gods and gave it to mankind. He was punished later by Zeus for giving this knowledge to the humans.

Now in the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Snake (Lucifer/Satan) told Eve to eat from the apple of the Tree of Knowledge to acquire knowledge previously kept away by Yahweh. Why would Yahweh purposely keep his own creations ignorant and stupid? Why is the supposed evil the only one who seeks to enlighten humanity?

Satan wasn't trying to "enlighten" humanity with knowledge. What he sought to do, was corrupt humanity with sin.
The world was perfect before the fall. Everything was in harmony, peace. Adam and Eve walked with God, and lived happily. They didn't have to work or anything. Animals didn't kill each other, but lived together in harmony as well.
to their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 02:41:32 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 02:05:20 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 02:03:10 AM

Quote from: Korra Valentine on January 08, 2015, 01:31:11 AM

Quote from: Nick McIntyre on January 08, 2015, 01:29:28 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on January 08, 2015, 12:22:35 AM

They could eat of any tree, but the one bearing the knowlege of good and evil.

That's it. One tree.

That's one thing that always bugged me:  Why was God such a fucking asshole as to put a tree like that in the middle of a field and tell Adam and Eve, "You better not touch that, that's the cookie jar.  Keep your hands off of it."

And then when they did, he fucking cast them out and cursed their descendants and the whole of Earth.  Like an asshole.

And literally make the one being that wanted to give you some cookies the most evil being in existence.

Here's where perspective matters. God is good, and righteous. Sin, is the opposite of that: unrighteousness, darkness, evil. It defiles, it corrupts.

So what does eating of the tree of knowledge do? Well that's the question.

Genesis 3:7

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Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Sin comes into the picture, the very moment Adam and Eve eat of the tree. Eating of the tree didn't enlighten them, it corrupted them. They were perfect in every way, they would never work for food or die of old age.

They eat of the apple, then suddenly......everything goes wrong. They are aware of their nakedness and feel shame, they hide from God whom they loved so much. And what does God do when He discovers this? The first thing He does is curse the serpent.

Why curse it? Because God saw the serpent had destroyed the innocence of those He loved. And created a rift of sin, that divided them. Christ was the only way to bridge that divide.



Here is what happens immediately after the cursing of the serpent:

Genesis 3: 17-20

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To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

All these results you see, they aren't God cursing them. "Cursed is the ground because of you".
He is saying their actions caused this suffering they will now experience.

Romans 6:23

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For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So you rather remain ignorant and stupid instead of having knowledge and awareness of your own actions? Knowledge that make you like gods, knowledge that make you live independent from this god and to live your own life?

But we weren't ignorant or stupid. The only difference was, we weren't in sin.
We had the freedom of choice, but we chose wrong. Adam and Eve knew what they did was wrong, since they were told not to do it, but the gravity of what they had done didn't sink in until after the fact. They felt shame and hid from God because of it.

You see it as "enlightenment" or realization, but this event isn't called "The fall of man" for nothing. It wasn't a step up, it was a leap off a cliff from perfection to imperfection.

Yes, how dare they have free will.  Because they had Free Will, God decided to:

Make them mortal
Experience sickness and suffering
Cursed their children (and every child after them) to sin
Damned them to Hell
Forced women to experience the pain of childbirth
and threw them out of paradise.

Meanwhile the Devil is happy to take all the rejects, such as gay people, furries, and people with mental instabilities.  I'm thinking I'd rather have a beer with the Devil than a jealous, angry, vengeful God who would wreck your shit.

No Jesus was definitely a real guy. (There were accounts from the Romans I believe.)Not positive but I'm pretty sure.