Do you mean a person's Religious/Spiritual belief being the biggest cause of their action? While it is indeed a factor that can have the biggest sway in how someone acts, I don't see how one draws the conclusion that 'Islam'(in this case) is inherently bad,

All religions are inherently "bad", by my own conclusion. They vary wildly on this spectrum, it's just that Islam has the unfortunate situation of being at the end.

because a small group of those Muslims utilize that belief in a way that causes harm to others.

Again, it really isn't a small group. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jihadists, Islamists and Conservative Muslims made up over half of the Muslim population. As I already noted to Icy, over half of British Muslims are perfectly happy with the suppression of free speech to protect their religious sensibilities. Just take a minute to consider what an intellectual offensive idea that is to liberalism.

Likely the reason that group acts that way is because they are pressured by the current, and long history of conflict in the region, they are not well educated, and are swayed easily because their lack of education makes it easier for them to not think critically about what they're told.

I don't disagree, the point is that religion is the thing which produces this inability - or unwillingness - to think critically in the first place. I'm not saying we're born as logical positivists, but the presence of faith or any sort can cloud a person's judgement regardless of their "education".

If you want me to illustrate this point, just consider the difference between Jainism and Islam. If you need any convincing at all that doctrine is a massive motivator of behaviour - when other variables are controlled for - just consider for a minute the likelihood of violence among Jains and Muslims respectively, and you should reach the conclusion that the results will differ wildly.

If you want me to concede anything, then I'll say the problem isn't just religion. Not even by a long shot. It's dogma and groupish mentality. It's just exceedingly unfortunate that religious perpetuate both of these things to a considerable degree, and some do it better than others.

Again, it really isn't a small group. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jihadists, Islamists and Conservative Muslims made up over half of the Muslim population. As I already noted to Icy, over half of British Muslims are perfectly happy with the suppression of free speech to protect their religious sensibilities. Just take a minute to consider what an intellectual offensive idea that is to liberalism.

Well, we can't really declare what the size of the groups are w/o a proper study. So, what each of us says is the minority is null at that point.
     Considering that the vast majority of Muslims still live in the Middle East, where all these problems are occurring, that shouldn't be too noteworthy. Outside influence isn't quite popular there, as I understand it.
     That seems like it might be out of proper context. To what degree, in what field, and what was the issue that resulted in that figure being recorded about?

I don't disagree, the point is that religion is the thing which produces this inability - or unwillingness - to think critically in the first place. I'm not saying we're born as logical positivists, but the presence of faith or any sort can cloud a person's judgement regardless of their "education".

Yeah, I think your point would be inaccurate. If someone doesn't know any better about something, then the answer is not definitively "religion is to blame". Ignorance, not knowing how or what to think, not learning or being taught how to, is basic in Humans when confronted with a new or complex situation. I really do not see how you got the idea that religious beliefs cause this. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

If you want me to illustrate this point, just consider the difference between Jainism and Islam. If you need any convincing at all that doctrine is a massive motivator of behaviour - when other variables are controlled for - just consider for a minute the likelihood of violence among Jains and Muslims respectively, and you should reach the conclusion that the results will differ wildly.

Yeah, they're from different regions, different groups of people that had different reactions with other groups, and their ages differ greatly. Of course they will be different. If you don't want to think about religion spiritually, think about it as the byproduct of the culture and time it arose from. The following generations are taught their culture's history, beliefs, and customs through their religion. Yes, that will affect how they act and think, because that's the place where they came from.

But again, I don't see how that shows ignorance and lack of skill in comprehension result from religion. The Jains are peaceful, the Muslims are not, each has different cultural expectations they seek to remain adhered to. Many of the Muslims may stick to the old beliefs, because maybe to them Western culture is more synonymous with air strikes than free-thinking and democracy?

Well she's right, you've seen to become quite the islamophobe Meta.

Especially the Sunni Muslims.

I thought Shia Muslims were considered the most radical.  At least that's what the current situation in the Middle east tells me.

>You will never have a qt niqab wearing Muslim gf
>you will never slowly get her to show more and more of her body
>you will never finally take her virginity and make her miss prayers in the process
>you will never slowly show her the truth that there is no god
>you will never convince her to free herself
>you will never run away across the country together to escape honor killings by her brothers
>you will never have a qt deconverted wife

The feels are killing me

I'm anti-Islam, anti-Muslim, and anti-Catholicism.

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on October 16, 2014, 03:26:08 PM

Ignorance, not knowing how or what to think, not learning or being taught how to, is basic in Humans when confronted with a new or complex situation. I really do not see how you got the idea that religious beliefs cause this. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I'm not saying religious belief is, in some way, the psychological cause of ignorance. I'm saying dogmatism, and by extension religion, causes the extension and propagates such behaviour. I'm not claiming ignorance is a specifically religious phenomenon.

So, your problem is you hate a certain style of how things are taught, and since some religions have that method of teaching(Dogma/indoctrination), you think they're bad? Dogmatic teaching isn't just something limited to religion, nations breed it too. Yet, nations aren't bad, it's just some ways of running them are better than others. Why not think the same of religion?

How can they not be Muslims?

If anything, the perpetrators of 9/11 are TRUE Muslims considering they followed their holy book to the exact text.

How can they not be Muslims?

If anything, the perpetrators of 9/11 are TRUE Muslims considering they followed their holy book to the exact text.

The Qur'an told them to fly planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon?

If the book is that accurate, who wouldn't follow it?