Dogmatic communism and the Authoritarian Left

Ajax | Respected Posting Frenzy
 
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How come the few and the powerful that take advantage of something (such as communism) for their own self gain get to ruin the image of a Utopian society? How come people like Hitler and Churchill haven't ruined Capitalism, but the likes of Mao and Stalin have made the word taboo in some places. And what baffles me the most is how people can't seem to separate the authoritarian and libertarian left.... it just, irks me.


 
gats
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You will find out who you are not a thousand times, before you ever discover who you are. I hope you find peace in yourself and learn to love instead of hate.
You know what irks me? The US's anti-communist strategy in the Middle East, it worked wonders. They got rid of poets and replaced them with jihadis.


 
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Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 07:28:03 PM by SoporificSlash


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Utopias are utopias for a reason.
We don't have anywhere near the resources necessary to make a fully socialistic society happen right now.


Ajax | Respected Posting Frenzy
 
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Capitalism has been proven time and time again to work the most efficiently. It is after all how America is the most powerful country in the world.

It's also coincidentally the one that's been around longer than the rest, those observations may be a tad bit bias.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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How come people like Hitler and Churchill haven't ruined Capitalism

Probably because Hitler wasn't a capitalist. Though he did use several capitalist policies to invigorate Germany; namely, the effect of reprivatization of firms had an immediate positive effect that quickly aided in recovery from a depression.
Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 07:40:24 PM by HurtfulTurkey


ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ | Mythic Invincible!
 
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"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us'."
-Saint Anthony the Great
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big sponge
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Hitler was fascist.

The only reason that Churchill is given slack is because he won.
Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 09:17:05 PM by LC


ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ | Mythic Invincible!
 
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"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us'."
-Saint Anthony the Great
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Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
How come people like Hitler and Churchill haven't ruined Capitalism

Probably because Hitler wasn't a capitalist. Though he did use several capitalist policies to invigorate Germany; namely, the effect of reprivatization of firms had an immediate positive effect that quickly aided in recovery from a depression.
He nationalized firms and implemented autarkic policies and tariffs that I would argue is the complete antithesis of capitalism.

The outbreak of war emancipated the German population from the depression, not his policies.


Ajax | Respected Posting Frenzy
 
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The libertarian left is a real thing, don't try and discredit it


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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National Socialist German Workers' Party does not scream capitalism to me.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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The libertarian left is a real thing, don't try and discredit it
There's no way you can stand for freedom if you support socialism.


 
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Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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He nationalized firms
Some, like steel and iron. Early on he privatized quite a bit.
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The outbreak of war emancipated the German population from the depression, not his policies.

Well that's just patently untrue. Germany was beginning to thrive long before the war began.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
Some, like steel and iron. Early on he privatized quite a bit.
Such as? Enclosed nationalization of the economy was a priority for Hitler because it aligned with the National Socialist beliefs of a strong pure bred nation. Whether it was effective or not was pretty much irrelevant to him.

If that's what you're referring to as 'privatization' then absolutely. But it's not, by any means, capitalistic.
Quote
Well that's just patently untrue. Germany was beginning to thrive long before the war began.
Employment rose, but not much else. The average German was working over 50 hours a week to compensate for the turbulent increases in the standard of living.
Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 10:43:31 AM by A E S T H E T I C S


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Some, like steel and iron. Early on he privatized quite a bit.
Such as?
https://coreyrobin.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/bel-2010-nazi-privatizations1.pdf
Quote
It is a fact that the Nazi government sold off public ownership in several
state-owned firms in the mid-1930s. These firms belonged to a wide range of
sectors; for example, steel, mining, banking, shipyard, ship-lines, and railways. It
must be pointed out that, whereas modern privatization has run parallel to liberalization
policies, in Nazi Germany privatization was applied within a framework
of increasing state control of the whole economy through regulation and political
interference.

Quote
Not really.

Literally proves my point. Within months of Hitler's election the stock market was rising rapidly.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
https://coreyrobin.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/bel-2010-nazi-privatizations1.pdf
It is a fact that the Nazi government sold off public ownership in several
state-owned firms in the mid-1930s. These firms belonged to a wide range of
sectors; for example, steel, mining, banking, shipyard, ship-lines, and railways. It
must be pointed out that, whereas modern privatization has run parallel to liberalization
policies, in Nazi Germany privatization was applied within a framework
of increasing state control of the whole economy through regulation and political
interference.
They were far and few between though. Hitler only used it as a political tool for rearmament because he realised initially how effective it was. He strongly supported nationalization during the run up to the elections.

It was literally pocket change for fiscal revenue.
Quote
Literally proves my point. Within months of Hitler's election the stock market was rising rapidly.
Check my edit.
Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 10:55:00 AM by A E S T H E T I C S


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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https://coreyrobin.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/bel-2010-nazi-privatizations1.pdf
It is a fact that the Nazi government sold off public ownership in several
state-owned firms in the mid-1930s. These firms belonged to a wide range of
sectors; for example, steel, mining, banking, shipyard, ship-lines, and railways. It
must be pointed out that, whereas modern privatization has run parallel to liberalization
policies, in Nazi Germany privatization was applied within a framework
of increasing state control of the whole economy through regulation and political
interference.
They were far and few between though. Hitler only used it as a political tool for rearmament because he realised initially how effective it was. He strongly supported nationalization during the run up to the elections.

You literally just linked me the same article I showed you, which goes into great detail about Hitler's use of privatization to invigorate the economy. Later on he nationalized a few of those industries again, but I never said otherwise. I said he used certain capitalist policies to stock up for the impending war, at which point he shifted to a more nationalized, fascist system.
Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:05:02 AM by HurtfulTurkey


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
https://coreyrobin.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/bel-2010-nazi-privatizations1.pdf
It is a fact that the Nazi government sold off public ownership in several
state-owned firms in the mid-1930s. These firms belonged to a wide range of
sectors; for example, steel, mining, banking, shipyard, ship-lines, and railways. It
must be pointed out that, whereas modern privatization has run parallel to liberalization
policies, in Nazi Germany privatization was applied within a framework
of increasing state control of the whole economy through regulation and political
interference.
They were far and few between though. Hitler only used it as a political tool for rearmament because he realised initially how effective it was. He strongly supported nationalization during the run up to the elections.

You literally just linked me the same article I showed you, which goes into great detail about Hitler's use of privatization to invigorate the economy. Later on he nationalized a few of those industries again, but I never said otherwise. I said he used certain capitalist policies to stock up for the impending war, at which point he shifted to a more nationalized, fascist system.
Ah sorry, misunderstanding. Just came back from an operation. Not at 100% right now.

I'm still hesitant to call it 'invigorated' though. High standard of living and in an increase in public expenditure isn't something I would call invigorated.
Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:12:28 AM by A E S T H E T I C S


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I'm still hesitant to call it 'invigorated' though. High standard of living in an increase in public expenditure isn't something I would call invigorated.

Yeah, 'invigorated' probably isn't the best word. It's like the German economy snorted a line of coke before going to a bar fight.