Depression and Anxiety Self Help Thread

It's no real secret that our community of people has various depressive tendencies or issues of their own that they're dealing with. The short story on this, is that for some time now, among all the various docs I've been paying visits to, one of them referred me to an online course I can take that'll teach me to manage chronic depression and its tendencies.

I would direct you to the site that runs the course, but the only issue here, is that the course only treats people in my province. However, I thought to myself, that it might be helpful if I take the information that I know and essentially echo chamber it here for any of you to use. So, that's what I'm going to do as I progress through this course of mine.

I'm no therapist or doctor, but these lessons are designed for people to do them by themselves, so I will post as much information and helpful stuff as I can, so that any of you here can look through it if you need it, practice things if you want to, or just learn something new that you haven't before.

In a little while, I'll do the first write-ups to cover for the lessons and explanations I've already gone through. Any important post will be linked up here so you can find it easily in case the thread has conversations going.

Lesson 1 Summary Link:

Spoiler

http://sep7agon.net/serious/depression-and-anxiety-self-help-thread/msg1111347/#msg1111347

Lesson 2 Summary Link:

Spoiler

http://sep7agon.net/serious/depression-and-anxiety-self-help-thread/msg1113689/#msg1113689

What's up, ladies?

I'm single and ready to fucking kill myself.

Hello, yes, id like some milk and 2 teaspoons of cyanide in my coffee

What's up, ladies?

I'm single and ready to fucking kill myself.

I'm supposed to remind you to not do the thing.

I've found that channeling what depresses me can be a great motivator for getting shit done.

I struggle everyday just to exist.

Anyone need any advice with anxiety let me know.

I've had it (and got through it) for my entire life.

huh.. thatd be a tad bit helpful

K. So, the first things you need to know about both depression and anxiety, is what can influence them and what they're composed of.

Depression and anxiety are linked to two key things in your personal life. Our respective upbringing as a child and the family we came from, and our various genetic inherited traits. Combine this with a poor environment to live in for yourself and you have all the groundwork laid out on how susceptable you are to both being anxious or depressed.

However, both depression and anxiety are natural things for people. They aren't things that can be avoided or shunted out completely because they're a natural aspect to human emotions. But, just like almost everything, having too much is a bad thing.

The three main components that cause and help fuel anxiety and depression are as follows:

1. Unhelpful thoughts- I'm usless, worth nothing, should kill myself, what's the point, I can't do it,  ect ect.

2. Bodily symptoms- Tiredness, low energy, pain, trouble eating, overeating, trouble sleeping or sleeping too much, feeling extremely fidgity, ect ect

3. Unhelpful behaviors- Things like binge eating, actively sleeping too much or too little, letting yourself do nothing, drugs and self harm,

Now, the thing with these three, is that they create a cycle. Any three of these things listed all have influence over each other and are interconnected to each other, meaning that if any one of these things is at play, it leaves you vulnerable to the other two, and, ultimately, they circle back on each other. For example.

Binge eating might make you tired, leave you with little energy so you sleep more, and then end up feeling shitty about being a lazy ass who sleeps all day. See that cycle? Behavior> Symptom> Thoughts. Let's go for another example.

You say to yourself in your head "I'm worthless." You start feeling tired which in turn makes you sleep more and acomplish little throughout your day. Thoughts> Symptom> Behavior. And this is the vicious cycle.

This is the first lesson I've gone through. This is the early awareness phase. In order to do anything about your issues, you have to be aware of what they are. The lesson I've gone through, reccommends that you take about a week to examine yourself. See if you can spot your thoughts, behaviors, and symptoms, and then examine how they all influence and interact with each other.

Make yourself a list, and write it down. You can keep it to yourself, or post it here if you want. But keep the list.

You know, I had a lot of trouble as a kid, I just thought about way too much. Pretty much drove myself to depression knowing I would lead a pretty pointless existence and I'd never really make a mark, or do anything important. While that is somewhat true now, I don't care about it anymore.

These days I try to keep it very simple, enjoy life, do the things I want and buy the things I want, spend time with friends, but do everything responsibly, enjoy what I can do, and see with the life I have but don't do stupid shit that could jeopardise it. I don't need a fancy job, and I don't need to have some high degree...I know there are people much smarter then me, and I'm fine to let them make the choices and the changes. I'm just happy to do my own thing, someday have a child and tell him to be smart about what they do, but have fun, don't feel too pressured to make a difference.

Just do what makes you happy and the world might change for the better. Frankly, I also want to grow as old as I can, I want to see what our race can accomplish. But till then, I'm happy with the way things are, sure they could always be better, but they could also be so much worse.

The most important thing to remember is that depression can be overcome, but it's up to your willpower to make it happen. Not through medication, which is just a supressor. It's entirely on you.

This is a good thread Sandy, nice job so far.

K. So, the first things you need to know about both depression and anxiety, is what can influence them and what they're composed of.

Depression and anxiety are linked to two key things in your personal life. Our respective upbringing as a child and the family we came from, and our various genetic inherited traits. Combine this with a poor environment to live in for yourself and you have all the groundwork laid out on how susceptable you are to both being anxious or depressed.

However, both depression and anxiety are natural things for people. They aren't things that can be avoided or shunted out completely because they're a natural aspect to human emotions. But, just like almost everything, having too much is a bad thing.

The three main components that cause and help fuel anxiety and depression are as follows:

1. Unhelpful thoughts- I'm usless, worth nothing, should kill myself, what's the point, I can't do it,  ect ect.

2. Bodily symptoms- Tiredness, low energy, pain, trouble eating, overeating, trouble sleeping or sleeping too much, feeling extremely fidgity, ect ect

3. Unhelpful behaviors- Things like binge eating, actively sleeping too much or too little, letting yourself do nothing, drugs and self harm,

Now, the thing with these three, is that they create a cycle. Any three of these things listed all have influence over each other and are interconnected to each other, meaning that if any one of these things is at play, it leaves you vulnerable to the other two, and, ultimately, they circle back on each other. For example.

Binge eating might make you tired, leave you with little energy so you sleep more, and then end up feeling shitty about being a lazy ass who sleeps all day. See that cycle? Behavior> Symptom> Thoughts. Let's go for another example.

You say to yourself in your head "I'm worthless." You start feeling tired which in turn makes you sleep more and acomplish little throughout your day. Thoughts> Symptom> Behavior. And this is the vicious cycle.

This is the first lesson I've gone through. This is the early awareness phase. In order to do anything about your issues, you have to be aware of what they are. The lesson I've gone through, reccommends that you take about a week to examine yourself. See if you can spot your thoughts, behaviors, and symptoms, and then examine how they all influence and interact with each other.

Make yourself a list, and write it down. You can keep it to yourself, or post it here if you want. But keep the list.

Holy shit dude most of the things in here are exactly what I feel and do right now.

Wait... oversleeping can lead to D & A?


But I love sleeping.

Wait... oversleeping can lead to D & A?


But I love sleeping.

um

no

I haven't given the thread a full read through yet, it's been a rather busy day but for this point in particular

Changes in sleep patterns are one of the indications of depression/anxiety, however they would not be considered a cause of it. So you can enjoy your lie-ins without worry, what would be cause for concern is suddenly starting to sleep an awful lot more than usual, or an awful lot less.

Wait... oversleeping can lead to D & A?


But I love sleeping.

um

no

I haven't given the thread a full read through yet, it's been a rather busy day but for this point in particular

Changes in sleep patterns are one of the indications of depression/anxiety, however they would not be considered a cause of it. So you can enjoy your lie-ins without worry, what would be cause for concern is suddenly starting to sleep an awful lot more than usual, or an awful lot less.

Oh.

I do both a bit.

Wait... oversleeping can lead to D & A?


But I love sleeping.

um

no

I haven't given the thread a full read through yet, it's been a rather busy day but for this point in particular

Changes in sleep patterns are one of the indications of depression/anxiety, however they would not be considered a cause of it. So you can enjoy your lie-ins without worry, what would be cause for concern is suddenly starting to sleep an awful lot more than usual, or an awful lot less.

Oh.

I do both a bit.

Which I imagine can be explained through the life of a student <.<

However, if you then fit the criteria for some of the other conditions/symptoms listed (without other normal explanations) then they would start to look at depression >_>

A lot of problems, either normal life ones or mental health issues, have the same symptoms/presentation so discerning which is the actual cause of them is usually quite a game >_>

The most important thing to remember is that depression can be overcome, but it's up to your willpower to make it happen. Not through medication, which is just a supressor. It's entirely on you.

One quick clarification, I'm talking about MDD/Clinical Depression here rather than mild depression.

I dislike this view for a couple of reasons

A depressed person generally speaking has their willpower sapped by the depression, placing the onus on them to overcome the depression on their own doesn't always have positive results. Some people do it, they are the lucky ones who probably didn't have MDD and I'm glad for them.

When you are looking at clinical depression, very often there is a biological basis to the disease rather than a purely psychological/social one.

Psychiatric medication is used to stabilise the person, to bring the depression under control and to achieve the desired effect (typically of raising serotonin levels) which then brings the person to the point where they are able to engage with psychological therapies properly - leading to the optimal result of the person leaving therapy with the resilience to ward off future bouts of depression.

The other experimental theory at the moment involves the regeneration of neurons in the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex, as measured by levels of BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor). In a normal person, they have a healthy stable rate of neurogenesis in these two regions but in a person with MDD/Clinical Dep. the levels of BDNF in their body are abnormally low. This means that their brain on a cellular level is being damaged and altered by the lack of new neurons being developed - either as a cause or a symptom of depression - you cannot 'think' your way out of an issue involving damage to the neurons in your brain.

Don't get me wrong, the power of a person's mind is great but there is only so much you can do with thought and willpower alone when there is a biological problem gnawing away at your brain.

I guess it depends on the severity, but in most cases I've seen people just use the medication as a way to "fix" depression without doing much else. It doesn't fix depression, and when used that way all it does is put it off temporarily, if anything. I get bothered when I hear of people with mild to moderate going on medication and acting like it'll "cure" them or something.

For severe cases where they need to be chemically/hormonally balanced in some way, yeah I completely agree.

I guess it depends on the severity, but in most cases I've seen people just use the medication as a way to "fix" depression without doing much else. It doesn't fix depression, and when used that way all it does is put it off temporarily, if anything. I get bothered when I hear of people with mild to moderate going on medication and acting like it'll "cure" them or something.

For severe cases where they need to be chemically/hormonally balanced in some way, yeah I completely agree.

Yeah, it is a bit of a problem with over-prescribing ADMs to people who would in all likelihood recover on their own terms, or with a simple course of counselling/CBT. Part of the problem is GPs/Family Doctors not being trained properly for spotting and treating depression, I can't quite remember the %ages but the rate of False-Positive and False-Negatives was uncomfortably high. People who need ADMs end up without them and those who don't get prescribed a bucket of prozac.

Okay, so, like I said previously, maybe now you're more familiar with the components of depression and anxiety. You've got all three facets to that cycle of shitty thoughts, bad behaviors, and physical symptoms hitting you, dragging you down, and you have no idea where to start, even though you made yourself a list of identified things for yourself to look at.

Well, here's where you start. Thoughts. And we're gonna learn a little bit about those today. You probably already know that thoughts influence your emotions, and that those emotions in turn, continue to influence your thoughts. When you're overly anxious or depressed, your thoughts alter, the same as any other emotion will do to you. The key difference here is that an overabundance of these particular thoughts warp things for you.

And what we're going to learn about now, are thought types. There are three. For example, let's say that your boss asks to meet you outside their office, and you're sitting there thinking to yourself;

1. Neutral- I wonder what this about?

2. Positive- I bet I've been called in for a promotion for all my recent work

3. Negative- Wow fuck I'm probably gonna get fired

People who are depressed often have unhelpful and unrealistic thoughts, which make us see everything around us in a threatening, hopeless way. You'll drastically overestimate the likelyhood of something bad happening, as well as drastically underestimate your own ability to cope if something does go wrong.

Same situation in the example above, but different emotional outcomes result beause of your thoughts regardless of the end result of that meeting. Being overly anxious or depressed causes negative thoughts to appear automatically. And this right here is the key point. Because negative thoughts seem to appear automatically, you're less likely to question them and whether or not they're true.

But, that doesn't mean that you can't challenge a thought of your own and actively resist it. And this is what this particular lesson is going to teach. A skill that you can use by yourself throughout your entire life to manage, and oppose thoughts that will drag you down and start the chain reaction of the depressive cycle.

The aim of challenging your own thoughts is to keep things realistic. There are three steps to this process.

1. Stop and recognize your thought, for example;

- I'm no good at anything
- this is going to be terrible
- I can't cope

2. Ask yourself questions about the thought

- What's the evidence for your thought?
- Is this thought of yours helpful?
- Is this thought true?

3. Do something helpful

- Challenge the thought when it comes up again
- Make it more realisitc
- Do something to help cope
- Recognize that the thought is unhelpful, and let it go

Now, what's important here, is that this is a skill. It takes time to learn and become comfortable with, and it's not easy at first to pick out your thoughts because, as we talked about, your negative thoughts are part of a cycle. They will appear automatically, and because you're so used to seeing the world as you see it now, you're not going to stop for a moment and think about what you just thought about.

You might think that this is an example of thinking positively in a bad situation, but it's not. It's thinking realisticlly. The goal of learning to do this, and do it often, is to start to break the cycle you're trapped in and keep it from becoming worse.

The hard part, beyond seeing and realizing what you say to yourself, is of course, action. Thinking realistically might provide you with answers that go beyond your own thoughts alone. For example, you might ask yourself why you just said you feel like shit today, and you'll look at your home, or you job, and suddenly realize that it's shit. Which will put you right back down in your hole again. Unless you change it.

This is, without a doubt, going to be the tougher aspect to learn. It's one thing to challenge your thoughts. But sometimes the realistic answer we're given isn't too peachy either. Which means that both you, and I, will have to eventually act.

But that comes later. For now focus on looking at your own thoughts when they come up, and taking them apart to find out if they're true or not. The lesson reccommends taking two weeks to get familiar with this aspect of thinking.

Remember folks. It's all in your head. This is where it starts, and this is where it can start to end.

Started back up on Venlafaxine (for anxiety) in December, since then I've had a puzzling issue. I've noticed that my depressive spells have leveled out, both ways. I don't ever really feel intensely down, but I can't seem to real feel the same highs that I used to. It's preferable to what was happening before, but the constant sense of boredom is a bit irritating. I have to more actively try to be in a "good mood", and trying gets tiring.

Started back up on Venlafaxine (for anxiety) in December, since then I've had a puzzling issue. I've noticed that my depressive spells have leveled out, both ways. I don't ever really feel intensely down, but I can't seem to real feel the same highs that I used to. It's preferable to what was happening before, but the constant sense of boredom is a bit irritating. I have to more actively try to be in a "good mood", and trying gets tiring.

That would probably be the medication. If it's blocking out the signals and such in your head that are getting you down, then I'd take a guess that you got a double edged sword based off your descriptions. You block the negative receptors or the stuff responsible for producing, which keeps you from going too low. But, side effect could also be that your various networks for "happy time" are also stunted in the process.

Which as you put, evens out.

This is one of the reasons why I've never gone on depression medicine apart from my own medical reasons at the moment. Side effects, the drugs wearing down, yada yada. I always figured that the medication was the poorest choice to turn to, for me personally, at least, because I know that eventually the meds run down or out.

They don't teach you how to beat it. They just trick you head into thinking that you're better without actually solving the root of the problem that's giving you your issues, assuming of course, it's not an inborn disorder that can't really be fixed.

They don't teach you how to beat it. They just trick you head into thinking that you're better without actually solving the root of the problem that's giving you your issues, assuming of course, it's not an inborn disorder that can't really be fixed.

I have to clarify that I'm not taking it for depression; it's for GAD and Panic Disorder. The latter benefits from CBT, yes, but an SSRI is generally required to prevent more panic attacks from occuring.

It's just also happened to effect my depression, because an SSRI is a form of antidepressant.

Started back up on Venlafaxine (for anxiety) in December, since then I've had a puzzling issue. I've noticed that my depressive spells have leveled out, both ways. I don't ever really feel intensely down, but I can't seem to real feel the same highs that I used to. It's preferable to what was happening before, but the constant sense of boredom is a bit irritating. I have to more actively try to be in a "good mood", and trying gets tiring.

Edit, took me so long to finish typing this i missed the post above. Gimme a few to update it.

Spoiler

SNRIs aren't a medication we've covered in a great amount of detail so I can only suggest stuff in general terms rather than the more detailed ones but I'll say what I can all the same <.<

I guess one of the questions that does determine the answers a little is to do with the highs and lows, was a specific diagnosis given for that? (if you want to say of course) or was it under MDD/GAD?

Regarding the medication, the idea is usually to aim for a stabilising effect which is what you have seen. As I've said I'm not too clear on SNRIs but if similar prinicples of SSRIs apply then after the initial period of being on the medication which is about 6-8 weeks there should then start to be a general improvement. It might also be that they switch the meds or up the dose during/after that time too so I wouldn't get too concerned about short term side effects at this point (unless you get the A&E required kind but that goes without saying).

Speaking more from experience here than from study, it was about 6 or so months before I started to improve after going on Mirtazapine and even then it was gradual. But after I'd been on it for a year and had therapy alongside it, I was on the up out of it. I'm still on them and I doubt I'll be off them in the next six months but possibly after then. They like to leave a buffer zone of 1-2 years in remission before they look at taking you off them. So heads up for the long-haul really <.<

If after another couple of months you find being flat all the time is no more tolerable than having the highs and lows then speak with the doctor who prescribed them and see if they can try out a different one >_>

They don't teach you how to beat it. They just trick you head into thinking that you're better without actually solving the root of the problem that's giving you your issues, assuming of course, it's not an inborn disorder that can't really be fixed.

I have to clarify that I'm not taking it for depression; it's for GAD and Panic Disorder. The latter benefits from CBT, yes, but an SSRI is generally required to prevent more panic attacks from occuring.

It's just also happened to effect my depression, because an SSRI is a form of antidepressant.

The previous post might still be of use but here is a bit more of a relevant one.

Minor point but Venlafaxine is an SNRI, which doesn't really make a whole lot of difference to you to be honest <.<

Taking it for GAD/Panic disorder will explain why it has the levelling effect moreso than a purely antidepressant one, because the aim will be to reduce the physiological response to anxiety to help treat the panic disorder (as I'm sure they explained to you, i hope <.<)

Are you having CBT alongside it? or is it planned or something? >.>

They don't teach you how to beat it. They just trick you head into thinking that you're better without actually solving the root of the problem that's giving you your issues, assuming of course, it's not an inborn disorder that can't really be fixed.

I have to clarify that I'm not taking it for depression; it's for GAD and Panic Disorder. The latter benefits from CBT, yes, but an SSRI is generally required to prevent more panic attacks from occuring.

It's just also happened to effect my depression, because an SSRI is a form of antidepressant.

The previous post might still be of use but here is a bit more of a relevant one.

Minor point but Venlafaxine is an SNRI, which doesn't really make a whole lot of difference to you to be honest <.<

Taking it for GAD/Panic disorder will explain why it has the levelling effect moreso than a purely antidepressant one, because the aim will be to reduce the physiological response to anxiety to help treat the panic disorder (as I'm sure they explained to you, i hope <.<)

Are you having CBT alongside it? or is it planned or something? >.>

My mom was a therapist when she was younger, so I've always kind of had my own personal therapist. Diagnosed GAD and PD, Venlafaxine prescribed so that I don't freak out and drive half-way across the state again.

If my father's an indication (also suffers PD), I'm medicated for life. We're not good with stressors.

They don't teach you how to beat it. They just trick you head into thinking that you're better without actually solving the root of the problem that's giving you your issues, assuming of course, it's not an inborn disorder that can't really be fixed.

I have to clarify that I'm not taking it for depression; it's for GAD and Panic Disorder. The latter benefits from CBT, yes, but an SSRI is generally required to prevent more panic attacks from occuring.

It's just also happened to effect my depression, because an SSRI is a form of antidepressant.

The previous post might still be of use but here is a bit more of a relevant one.

Minor point but Venlafaxine is an SNRI, which doesn't really make a whole lot of difference to you to be honest <.<

Taking it for GAD/Panic disorder will explain why it has the levelling effect moreso than a purely antidepressant one, because the aim will be to reduce the physiological response to anxiety to help treat the panic disorder (as I'm sure they explained to you, i hope <.<)

Are you having CBT alongside it? or is it planned or something? >.>

My mom was a therapist when she was younger, so I've always kind of had my own personal therapist. Diagnosed GAD and PD, Venlafaxine prescribed so that I don't freak out and drive half-way across the state again.

If my father's an indication (also suffers PD), I'm medicated for life. We're not good with stressors.

Hmm well that can be both helpful and problematic in it's own way, as a general rule of thumb you shouldn't treat people you are close to because it gets quite difficult to do it well >.> Not that you can't advise them properly as opposed to 'grow a pair' or 'pull yourself together' which is what some people have to cope with.

That's not great, but I wouldn't resign yourself to it just yet. Whilst you are still in the <25 category the brain is still developing some of the finishing touches to the PFC/Hippocampus, after that point it becomes notably more difficult to change anything on the biological level <.<

Now one of the prevailing approaches at the moment is the biopsychosocial, which holds that change in one aspect can lead to change in another. So between the medication and some proper CBT/MBCT it wouldn't be a stretch to put a bit of faith in your brain adapting somewhat more positively in the long run. Fixing it in the next couple of years might save you an awful lot of grief in the long run.

That being said, I won't lie and say that it'll disappear for good. If you are prone to anxiety, chances are it's going to be with you for life but the severity of it can be greatly diminished <.<

Queshtin

What if someones depression came from how life essentially boils down to doing the same thing till you die?

Queshtin

What if someones depression came from how life essentially boils down to doing the same thing till you die?

That's me

What if someones depression came from how life essentially boils down to doing the same thing till you die?

Sounds like endogenous depression.