Conservative or Liberal?

More Than Mortal · September 12, 2014, 01:47:45 PM

Now, obviously, such a dichotomy is always undesirable. However, I'm not referring to respective ideologies. I'm not asking if you're pro-gun control or pro-life or for a flat tax.

Spoiler

I make this distinction mainly for the Yanks, the Conservatives of Britain have, historically, been the welfarists.

Ideologically, we all have fundamentally liberal values I would imagine. That is, the legal liberty and equality of all individuals, freedom of the press, fair elections and the like. But from this basis, of course, many divergences have presented themselves.

No, I'm talking about attitude. It isn't uncommon for people to experience times of radicalisation in their lives, usually under the influence of either adolescence or oppression. Some of you may consider yourselves radicals, which is fine. However, in the dichotomy I'm asking about the attitude of giving due respect to historical institutions like (for us Britbongs) the Monarchy, and taking things like tradition into account vs the attitude of "out with the old and in with the new", being hostile to traditions or such institutions.

I'm sure you can all differentiate between whether or not you fit into a more conservative or a more liberal attitude, but if you need further explanation, F.A. Hayek made a decent typology that can be applied to the dichotomy.

Quote

the "British tradition" (conservative) and the "French tradition" (liberal). Hayek saw the [British tradition] as representative of a tradition that articulated beliefs in empiricism, the common law, and in traditions and institutions which had spontaneously evolved but were imperfectly understood. The French tradition [...] believed in rationalism and sometimes showed hostility to tradition and religion.

I'd put myself in the British tradition.

Magos Domina · September 12, 2014, 02:14:27 PM

I'll not get into it because it's been a long day but in answer to your 3 things.

I'm fine with responsible people owning guns, fire arms should be licensed, no that does not make me a tyrant Alex Jones supporters. I don't support any random cunt going into a gun store and walking out with a light machine gun. However if you're a responsible person then I don't see why you can't own a gun. The gun debate in America is a joke, with the likes of the right threatening a revolution and the left threatening to outright ban guns.

I'm pro-choice, personally I would only support abortion if the womans life was in danger but it's a grey area that's sensitive to the pro-lifers and pro-choicers and I can't be fucked with the bitch fighting that starts when the two sides go head to head..

The rich should be taxed higher than the middle and working class.

More Than Mortal · September 12, 2014, 02:15:25 PM

ffs kiyo, at least read the op properly

DAS B00T x2 · September 12, 2014, 02:17:52 PM

I'd be inclined to say liberal if it wasn't so... french... *shudders*

Magos Domina · September 12, 2014, 02:23:51 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 12, 2014, 02:15:25 PM

ffs kiyo, at least read the op properly

I'm tired, it's been a long day, so I really cbf.

Kinder Graham · September 12, 2014, 02:33:01 PM

Quote from: Kiyohime on September 12, 2014, 02:14:27 PM

I'll not get into it because it's been a long day but in answer to your 3 things.

I'm fine with responsible people owning guns, fire arms should be licensed, no that does not make me a tyrant Alex Jones supporters. I don't support any random cunt going into a gun store and walking out with a light machine gun. However if you're a responsible person then I don't see why you can't own a gun. The gun debate in America is a joke, with the likes of the right threatening a revolution and the left threatening to outright ban guns.

I'm pro-choice, personally I would only support abortion if the womans life was in danger but it's a grey area that's sensitive to the pro-lifers and pro-choicers and I can't be fucked with the bitch fighting that starts when the two sides go head to head..

The rich should be taxed higher than the middle and working class.

If You're referring to America:

You have a big misconception of guns. First of, being licensed costs money. If a person doesn't have the money to get a license then they can't buy a gun, which is an infringement. Same exact argument for people against voter IDs and poll taxes. Second, any person can go into a gun store but not everybody walks out with a gun as background checks are performed. Third, light machine guns are heavily restricted and requires a person to go through extensive background checks, fill out a lot of documentation, obtain a special license, and pay a $200 tax stamp then the cost of a light machine gun will cost at the lowest of around $20,000. Fourth, the right to own guns is a Constitutional right, just like speech. If the government was going to regulate speech or avoid taking out warrants to search then the same reaction from the restriction on guns would happen

More Than Mortal · September 12, 2014, 02:36:18 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 02:33:01 PM

Which part of

Quote

I'll not get into it

Slipped past you?

God · September 12, 2014, 03:37:51 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 02:33:01 PM

First of, being licensed costs money. If a person doesn't have the money to get a license then they can't buy a gun, which is an infringement.

Why is the same is not applied to cars? Isn't access to transportation very important to an individual's liberty, at least to a similar extent as being able to kill or hunt? Do you think it's wrong that people are forced to pay for insurance and DMV fees in order to be able to use something that may be necessary for their livelihood, just because it's possible for unqualified people to kill or injure others with it?

Kinder Graham · September 12, 2014, 03:40:17 PM

Quote from: God on September 12, 2014, 03:37:51 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 02:33:01 PM
First of, being licensed costs money. If a person doesn't have the money to get a license then they can't buy a gun, which is an infringement.

Why is the same is not applied to cars? Isn't access to transportation very important to an individual's liberty, at least to a similar extent as being able to kill or hunt? Do you think it's wrong that people are forced to pay for insurance and DMV fees in order to be able to use something that may be necessary for their livelihood?

Because cars are not a Constitutional right

Pretty pathetic comparison you got there, expected something like that from Sentra

God · September 12, 2014, 03:43:15 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 03:40:17 PM

Because cars are not a Constitutional right

Why shouldn't they be? Would they be if they existed during the 1700's?

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 03:40:17 PM

Pretty pathetic comparison you got there

They are both things many people find important to their livelihood, and they can both kill or hurt people if misused.

More Than Mortal · September 12, 2014, 03:44:39 PM

Quote from: God on September 12, 2014, 03:43:15 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Because cars are not a Constitutional right

Why shouldn't they be? Would they be if they existed during the 1700's?

. . .

No.

No they wouldn't.

DAS B00T x2 · September 12, 2014, 03:45:40 PM

Quote from: God on September 12, 2014, 03:43:15 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Because cars are not a Constitutional right

Why shouldn't they be? Would they be if they existed during the 1700's?

Horses and wagons aren't a constitutional right.

Kinder Graham · September 12, 2014, 03:46:08 PM

Quote from: God on September 12, 2014, 03:43:15 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Because cars are not a Constitutional right

Why shouldn't they be? Would they be if they existed during the 1700's?

I can't tell if troll or just stupid

Horses existed back in the 1700's but there is no Amendment about them

Reciffo_Smmoc · September 12, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Kinder Graham · September 12, 2014, 05:25:26 PM

Quote from: Weed Commando on September 12, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 03:46:08 PM
Quote from: God on September 12, 2014, 03:43:15 PM
Quote from: Kinder_ on September 12, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Because cars are not a Constitutional right

Why shouldn't they be? Would they be if they existed during the 1700's?
I can't tell if troll or just stupid

Horses existed back in the 1700's but there is no Amendment about them
I can sum up 90% of Kinder's posts in the Serious board.

"muh constitution"

I can sum up 90% of Comm's posts on the site.

"muh germany"

Reciffo_Smmoc · September 12, 2014, 05:44:30 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

BrenMan 94 · September 13, 2014, 05:23:59 AM

Conservative

More Than Mortal · September 13, 2014, 09:07:01 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on September 13, 2014, 05:23:59 AM

Conservative

About time you got here.

BrenMan 94 · September 14, 2014, 12:06:37 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 13, 2014, 09:07:01 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on September 13, 2014, 05:23:59 AM
Conservative
About time you got here.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 14, 2014, 12:08:58 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · September 14, 2014, 12:13:35 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 12:15:21 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on September 14, 2014, 12:13:35 PM

Conservative on economics

Liberal on social issues

You didn't read the OP, evidently.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · September 14, 2014, 12:15:58 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

More Than Mortal · September 14, 2014, 12:17:17 PM

This is why Serious can't have nice things.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · September 14, 2014, 12:19:06 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

challengerX · September 14, 2014, 01:02:35 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.