APA, what the fuck, stop it

 
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The Rage....
APA Review Confirms Link Between Playing Violent Video Games and Aggression

So blah blah risk factors and shit. 48 page report linked in the article by APA, but now, we get more nutjobs blaming games for violence! Studies like these are pretty silly.


 
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It's apparently a pretty controversial study among American psychologists as a lot of them are having issues with how the APA went about doing that study.

Basically it seems to have been created with the intention of creating this result and there's currently an open letter signed by 230 psychologists requesting that they rescind this study.

A TL;DR of what seems to have went down is that a bunch of anti-media anti-youth old people got together and looked for "evidence" to confirm their biases.
Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 03:55:05 AM by LC


 
 
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I imagine it's a lot of bollocks anyway, but I'll nitpick the study later tonight if people want me to <.<


 
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<.<
I imagine it's a lot of bollocks anyway, but I'll nitpick the study later tonight if people want me to <.<
Nitpick my dick bitch
rood


 
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The Rage....
I imagine it's a lot of bollocks anyway, but I'll nitpick the study later tonight if people want me to <.<
You're actually gonna skim the report? I read about 3 pages.


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there's currently an open letter signed by 230 psychologists requesting that they rescind this study.

That letter is a two-year-old document released prior to the publication of the study's results requesting that they approach it from a less ideological position, implying they think the study is a result of high-profile crimes tentatively linked to gamers by the media.

I think we all know deep down that being exposed to frequent, repetitive violence, especially in a medium as personal and immersive as video games can lead to aggressive or even violent behavioral responses, and we all agree that nurture almost always trumps nature when it comes to conditioning youths' personality and behavior. An important snippet from the study:
Quote
Thus, all violence is aggression, but not all aggression is violence. This distinction is
important for understanding this research literature, for considering the implications of the
research, and for interpreting popular press accounts of the research and its applicability to
societal events.
The idea that video games can't cause aggression because violent crime among youths has gone down is nonsensical, particularly because this study specifically denies a correlation with violent crime and denotes a tangible difference between aggression and violence.  There's a recognized correlation between aggression and high school football, but we don't deny it just because youth crime is on a sharp decline. It's an ecological fallacy that fails to recognize that video games make up a culture which funnels natural aggressive behavior into other activities like games, sports, and clubs.

I don't think this study is negative or damning of video games at all, but it is necessary to not so vehemently defend a hobby that you're willing to set aside scientific study, especially when its conclusion is in our favor.


 
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You're completely neglecting to mention he fact that this study is pretty much bogus due to the fact that the people who did it were looking to create a result that agreed with their biases.

“As a researcher in this field, I thought you might be curious to know that there are actually a lot of problems with this report, how the task force was comprised, and the basis for its conclusions on research,”

“Indeed, the evidence linking violent games to aggression is honestly a lot less clear than the APA report would have one believe.  There are an increasing number of studies coming out now that suggest there is no link whatsoever. Further, the task force appeared to have been selected from among scholars with clear anti-media views (two had previously signed an amicus brief supporting attempts to regulate violent video games in the Brown v EMA 2011 Supreme Court case for instance).”

source


 
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*shrug*

sometimes when i get bodied in street fighter, i get pretty crabby lol

everyone knows video games cause aggression--that's what competition breeds
it's not really a controversial proposition

does that mean, however, that video games should be treated as a catalyst for violent crime?

FUCK no
Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 06:39:59 PM by Verbatim


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“As a researcher in this field, I thought you might be curious to know that there are actually a lot of problems with this report, how the task force was comprised, and the basis for its conclusions on research,”
I don't really understand why this person thinks being a fellow researcher entitles his opinion to override the study. He's welcome to weigh in on it, but research is a complicated business and it's just ridiculous to think any study can be done without bias or attempting to answer an ideological question. The same studies referenced (but not cited) by this paper's opposition were probably conducted to find the answer they wanted, too. That's how it works.

If you've ever sweated or felt your pulse quicken during a stressful mission or online match, or heard a 12 year old scream that he's going to murder your mother, or felt excited and energized by a game, then you're living proof that video games triggered aggressive behavior in you. It's anecdotal, but it's the kind of common sense thesis that's really difficult to defeat no matter how many studies you throw at it. This study isn't saying it causes crime (in fact it affirms the opposite), and it isn't saying games cause violence. Hell, if games didn't stimulate me in a way that caused some sort of aggressive response, I probably wouldn't play them. They'd be boring. I didn't chainsaw Locust in GoW because I liked the artwork; I did it because it excited me.
Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 06:48:11 PM by HurtfulTurkey


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Lol this shit again?


 
 
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<.<
I imagine it's a lot of bollocks anyway, but I'll nitpick the study later tonight if people want me to <.<
You're actually gonna skim the report? I read about 3 pages.
Yeah, I forgot I had work today so I'll look over it tomorrow and see what it looks like.


 
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Psy's apparently going to take it apart tomorrow.

However if you actually read the source I gave you'd see that this study was done by people who had a vested interest in creating a certain result, had zero transparency with how the were conducting their study, and then proceeded to "peer review" their own work.

You don't have to be a psychologist to have a few red flags raise up in your mind when that's going on.


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However if you actually read the source I gave you'd see that this study was done by people who had a vested interest in creating a certain result, had zero transparency with how the were conducting their study, and then proceeded to "peer review" their own work.

It's a meta-analysis...it's basically a gigantic peer-review of current literature on the subject by a team of researchers. Its peer review would have been conducted by the APA, since they're reviewing it. It's not being published in a journal, so it doesn't need a third party to review it. The Task Force did not review and publish the analysis themselves. You say the task force had a vested interest in creating a certain result, and while I disagree with the notion they fabricated the results, it's pretty much universal for scientists to start a study (or in this case a review of current literature) with the intent of finding certain results. That's why we either reject or fail to reject hypotheses; they sought to reject the counter-claim to the 2005 APA decision that video games don't cause aggression. As for transparency, there's an entire section talking about the methods and papers they reviewed. It's right there in the PDF.


 
 
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<.<
Hokai I'll go over the article style thing before I read the full one just to see what's what.

Quote
APA Review Confirms Link Between Playing Violent Video Games and Aggression

Finds insufficient research to link violent video game play to criminal violence
*Insert no shit sherlock award*

Quote
“The research demonstrates a consistent relation between violent video game use and increases in aggressive behavior, aggressive cognitions and aggressive affect, and decreases in prosocial behavior, empathy and sensitivity to aggression,” says the report of the APA Task Force on Violent Media. The task force’s review is the first in this field to examine the breadth of studies included and to undertake multiple approaches to reviewing the literature.

Alrighty, now going by what's been said in this thread (Meta-Analysis) that's a small red flag here. A meta analysis on it's own isn't necessarily going to be biased, assuming they do a proper one and incorporate all existing research data rather than cherry pick what they think suits their argument. So we'll go with the former there and assume it was comprehensive. That still brings up the other issue, where the studies incorporated are going to be dodgy.

Video Games and Violence as a research field is rife with special interest group funding who want to see the results (no matter how meaningless in reality) that it's violent video games that cause School Shootings/Promiscuity/Murder/Gang Warfare/Ebola/World War 2 rather than shitty parenting or mental issues (Take out the hyperbole examples for that)

Not to mention how the last 5 or so studies on exactly that used farcical measures of aggression and games designed specifically to piss the player off. I'll go look for it in a moment but it was in the BPS digest or BBC science section where the study involved making a player play a 5-10 minute segment of a game that had been modified to be frustrating beyond belief. So Dark Souls that you can't win basically. Then they had constructed a few ways to measure how pleasant/helpful the person was afterwards, such as holding the door open for the research assistant or something along those lines.

But hey, we'll go with the assumption that they only used top quality studies that measured more tangible aspects of human aggression rather than just making a nice demonstration of 'Kick the Cat'.

Quote
“No single risk factor consistently leads a person to act aggressively or violently,” the report states. “Rather, it is the accumulation of risk factors that tends to lead to aggressive or violent behavior. The research reviewed here demonstrates that violent video game use is one such risk factor.”

Which is a fair enough finding at face value, however the gravity of the risk factor isn't really clear here. It could be as relevant as the ambient temperature of the room or it could be something like having a massive family argument the night before an incident. Higher temperatures are a risk factor for aggression, but you'd be amazed if someone flat out dismembered another human because they touched the thermostat. Well actually maybe not but still <.<

And here is the first red flag.
Quote
In light of the task force’s conclusions, APA has called on the industry to design video games that include increased parental control over the amount of violence the games contain. APA’s Council of Representatives adopted a resolution at its meeting Aug. 7 in Toronto encouraging the Entertainment Software Rating Board to refine its video game rating system “to reflect the levels and characteristics of violence in games, in addition to the current global ratings.” In addition, the resolution urges developers to design games that are appropriate to users’ age and psychological development, and voices APA’s support for more research to address gaps in the knowledge about the effects of violent video game use.
Arguing for further restrictions on the product itself rather than making parents responsible for the shit their children are exposed to. Where have I seen this before I wonder?

If they want to refine the ERSB or PEGI ratings, sure. They mean literally nothing as it is so if they feel like wasting their lobbying power on that then good for them. If they want to start up the smear campaign again and cry out how Prototype is causing children to spin around with kitchen knives or call of duty is training people to shoot up airports then I don't need to say why that's fucking retarded.

Quote
The task force identified a number of limitations in the research that require further study. These include a general failure to look for any differences in outcomes between boys and girls who play violent video games; a dearth of studies that have examined the effects of violent video game play on children younger than 10; and a lack of research that has examined the games’ effects over the course of children’s development.

Uhuh, so leave out 50% of the population when you are making your conclusions. That sounds like some 10/10 research practice right there. But hey, girls never leave the kitchen so what does that matter?

Again, leave out the section of human development where if I am remembering my textbooks correctly, humans are most impressionable to things like that. Fine, fine. Who cares if a nine year old is playing GTA when a 15 year old might be.

And that's the nail being struck squarely on the head.
They've measured a snapshot of whatever scenario they built to see if video games causes aggression, not looked at the long term effects of playing violent games frequently. But seeing as how most of the humanoids in the west of the ages 21+ haven't degenerated into psychotic wrecks that maim others over Lag and Tbagging, I'm gonna say Gee Gee to that.

Quote
“We know that there are numerous risk factors for aggressive behavior,” Appelbaum said. “What researchers need to do now is conduct studies that look at the effects of video game play in people at risk for aggression or violence due to a combination of risk factors. For example, how do depression or delinquency interact with violent video game use?”

Seal of Shocking Truth time.

Rather than waste your time looking at the general population and going 'oh lawdy won't someone think of the children' over games, why not look at the ones who we know are predisposed or at greater risk (depending on how deterministic you want to get) towards violent actions because of existing mental issues.

The next bit is general methodology description but this bit caught my eye.
Quote
This resulted in 170 articles, 31 of which met all of the most stringent screening criteria.
And the other 139?

I'm going to do a followup post shortly after where I highlight the titles of the research papers included in this analysis. So far it's proving amusing reading.


 
 
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Metalution-Analysis

Spoiler
Anderson, C. A., & Carnagey, N. L. (2009). Caus
al effects of violent sports video games on
aggression: Is it competitiveness or violent content?
Journal of Experimental Social
Psychology, 45,
731–739

Adachi, P. J. C., & Willoughby, T. (2013a). Demo
lishing the competition: The longitudinal link
between competitive video games, competitive gambling, and aggression.
Journal of Youth
and Adolescence, 42,
1090–1104.

Adachi, P. J. C., & Willoughby, T. (2011b). The eff
ect of violent video games on aggression: Is
it more than just violence?
Aggression and Violent Behavior, 16,
55–62.

Adachi, P. J. C., & Willoughby, T. (2011a). The e
ffect of video game co
mpetition and violence
on aggressive behavior: Which characte
ristic has the greatest influence?
Psychology of
Violence, 1,
259–274. 

These were pulled from the finest selection of examples to suit my argument.

Oh wait, no actually these are just from the first page of the references section. And the first seven listed to boot.

I shall continue.

Spoiler
Ashworth, L., Pyle, M., & Pancer, E. (2010). The
role of dominance in the appeal of violent
media depictions.
Journal of Advertising, 39,
121–134. 
Someone gets it. Power Fantasies =/= A bit of vicarious blood-letting.
C-c-c-columbine breaker.
oh

Continuing
Spoiler
*+Arriaga, P., Monteiro, M. B.,
& Esteves, F. (2011). Effects of
playing violent computer games
on emotional desensitization and aggressive behavior.
Journal of Applied Social Psychology,
41,
1900–1925. 
This sounds like a nice balanced paper. But congrats on being the first overtly relevant one relating to the actual topic at hand.

Spoiler
Adachi, P. J., & Willoughby, T. (2013c). More th
an just fun and games: The longitudinal
relationships between strategi
c video games, self-reported problem solving skills, and
academic grades.
Journal of Youth and Adolescence,
42,
1041–1052. 
Two points;
One - How does this related to violent video games and aggression or are they just padding out their statistics?
Two - I love how they are using the same research pair five times so far. Totally doesn't raise a red flag.

Continue? [Insert £1 for three more lives]

Spoiler
Ballard, M., Visser, K., & Jocoy, K. (2012). Soci
al context and video game play: Impact on
cardiovascular and affective responses.
Mass Communication and Society, 15,
 875–898.
[Heavy Breathing]

Adrenaline release from playing an engaging video game totally doesn't have the same physiological effects as Adrenaline released from encountering a hostile force in the real world.

Spoiler
Bastian, B., Jetten, J., & Radke, H. R. M. (
2012). Cyber-dehumanization: Violent video game
play diminishes our humanity.
Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 48,
486–491. 
Just lol

Spoiler
Bond, D. (2011).
The effects of violent video games
on aggressive behavior and the relationship
to school shootings
 (Unpublished doctoral disserta
tion). Bond University, Robina,
Queensland, Australia.
LOL
Quote
Unpublished doctoral dissertation
I wonder why, I'm sure it's of the highest unbiased standard.

Spoiler
Bowen, H. J., & Spaniol, J. (2011). Chronic expo
sure to violent video games is not associated
with alterations of emotional memory.
Applied Cognitive Psychology, 25,
906–916. 
Muh violence tho

Spoiler
Burgess, M. R., Dill, K. E., Stermer, S., Burg
ess, S. R., & Brown, B. P. (2011). Playing with
prejudice: The prevalence and consequences
 of racial stereotypes in video games.
Media
Psychology, 14,
89–311.
Really, Really relevant to violence in vidya.

Spoiler
Bushing, R., Gentile, D. A., Krahe, B., Moller,
 I., Khoo, A., Walsh, D. A., & Anderson, C. A.
(2013). Testing the reliability and validity of diff
erent measures of violent video game use in
the USA, Singapore and Germany.
Psychology of Popular Media Culture
. Advance online
publication. doi:10.1037/ppm0000004
Meta-ception here.
A sound study though

Spoiler
+Bushman, B. J., & Gibson, B. (2011). Violent vi
deo games cause an increase in aggression
long after the game ha
s been turned off.
Social Psychological &
Personality Science, 2,
29–
32. 
Bushman, B. J., & Whitaker, J. L. (2010). Like
 a magnet: Catharsis beliefs attract angry people
to violent video games.
Psychological Science, 21,
790–792. 
The first one is amusing because of how it asserts causality in the title.

The second one is actually very pertinent, violent people seek out violent media as a release for their aggression in a socially acceptable way. But no it causes violence.

I'm gonna stop there but that's the kind of shit this study encompasses.
Half of it is irrelevant and the other half is biased/retarded/unpublished and the other half is about how cognitive functions in gamers are affected by playing video games.


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There's quite a bit of irony in criticising a meta-analysis for being biased by performing a meta-meta-analysis with the sole purpose of refuting its conclusion.

I think we need a meta-meta-meta-analysis to figure out the truth.


 
 
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There's quite a bit of irony in criticising a meta-analysis for being biased by performing a meta-meta-analysis with the sole purpose of refuting its conclusion.

I think we need a meta-meta-meta-analysis to figure out the truth.
Well that's not my objective really.

It doesn't need refuting because it is nonsense, the meta-analysis padded it's studies pool out with a lot of irrelevant or clearly biased studies. If they were analysing papers that pertained to aggression and video games to find some correlational/causal link then sure that'd be fine and would not be able to be picked apart in about 10 minutes of reading what studies they shoehorned in.

If you haven't already, look at the references section of the 48 page version. If anyone can tell me with a straight face that all, or even most, of those studies pertain to the issue of video games and violence rather than just video games in general psychology then I'd give them a medal.

Even if the methodology of the analysis was water-tight, which I'd say is likely because it's kind of hard to fuck one up, it's the stuff you feed into the system that counts and they poured all kinds of crap in there to make it look more impressive.


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There's quite a bit of irony in criticising a meta-analysis for being biased by performing a meta-meta-analysis with the sole purpose of refuting its conclusion.

I think we need a meta-meta-meta-analysis to figure out the truth.
Well that's not my objective really.

It doesn't need refuting because it is nonsense, the meta-analysis padded it's studies pool out with a lot of irrelevant or clearly biased studies. If they were analysing papers that pertained to aggression and video games to find some correlational/causal link then sure that'd be fine and would not be able to be picked apart in about 10 minutes of reading what studies they shoehorned in.

They state in their paper that they used a huge pool of studies and other analyses and the input from hundreds of psychologists to determine which studies to analyze.

Look Psy, I respect your opinion but you're just a psych student. You are not at all qualified to criticize this analysis so flippantly, especially when that criticism is prefaced with clear bias and based entirely on reading the titles of papers they studied.

Frankly, I think you should be embarrassed by using the apparent authority of psychology the community grants you here to flagrantly and casually toss aside the work of an immensely respected organization because you don't like the results. And honestly  I don't see how those results disagree with gamers' platform since it explicitly denies a causal link between games and crime or violence.
Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 10:54:17 AM by HurtfulTurkey


 
 
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There's quite a bit of irony in criticising a meta-analysis for being biased by performing a meta-meta-analysis with the sole purpose of refuting its conclusion.

I think we need a meta-meta-meta-analysis to figure out the truth.
Well that's not my objective really.

It doesn't need refuting because it is nonsense, the meta-analysis padded it's studies pool out with a lot of irrelevant or clearly biased studies. If they were analysing papers that pertained to aggression and video games to find some correlational/causal link then sure that'd be fine and would not be able to be picked apart in about 10 minutes of reading what studies they shoehorned in.

They state in their paper that they used a huge pool of studies and other analyses and the input from hundreds of psychologists to determine which studies to analyze.

Look Psy, I respect your opinion but you're just a psych student. You are not at all qualified to criticize this analysis so flippantly, especially when that criticism is prefaced with clear bias and based entirely on reading the titles of papers they studied.

Frankly, I think you should be embarrassed by using the apparent authority of psychology the community grants you here to flagrantly and casually toss aside the work of an immensely respected organization because you don't like the results. And honestly  I don't see how those results disagree with gamers' platform since it explicitly denies a causal link between games and crime or violence.
And yet, there are a notable number of actual psychologists who disagreed with it. If it was the BPS, I'd be less inclined to be sceptical of it given that it's somewhat less prone to being used as a mouthpiece to support the interest of the day.

I'm not pretending this is anything other than a flippant poke at it, I'm not spending my sunday afternoon reading a 48 page report on something unrelated to the field of psychology I'm actually interested in. I'm nitpicking the glaring flaws that I see in it, in a way that amuses myself. If I gave a flying monkeys about it, or this was something we had to do properly then sure I'd give it more than 20 minutes pisstaking.

And I think you are looking into this too deeply, I don't pretend to wield some psychology authority. As I've said many times before and as you've again pointed out, I'm a student. Sure I've been doing it for the last four years and I've got another seven to go, but I don't pretend that makes me an expert on it. For mental health, I'm not exactly a novice but I don't really waste my time with other aspects of psychology beyond the general principles that are applicable across the board.

I don't care about the results of it, I think it's funny that we are back to where we were 10-20 years ago and I'm making fun of that. The results aren't conclusive and this whole meta-analysis is a waste of time because they once again didn't find a causal link and the best they've got is risk factors which have been known since they started this crap.

And it doesn't, as you've said and as I've said previously. The results of this are pretty pointless, it doesn't make any difference and my only issue is that this is the sort of precursor to getting jack thompson resurrected to make gaming the scapegoat once again.