Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:18:34 PMAccepting Christ as Savior is all you need. That's it.But then God's love isn't unconditional. If you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, that's a condition to not get banished to the depths of hell for eternity.
Accepting Christ as Savior is all you need. That's it.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:46:49 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 08:23:02 PMThe fact that Rocket doesn't get bothered by the troll attempts irks me for some reason.1 Corinthians 13:4-84 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.it's shit like this that makes me think you're just suppressing your inner gay with a shell of homophobia
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 08:23:02 PMThe fact that Rocket doesn't get bothered by the troll attempts irks me for some reason.1 Corinthians 13:4-84 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.
The fact that Rocket doesn't get bothered by the troll attempts irks me for some reason.
Quote from: Rape Culture on March 02, 2015, 08:50:40 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:46:49 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 08:23:02 PMThe fact that Rocket doesn't get bothered by the troll attempts irks me for some reason.1 Corinthians 13:4-84 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.it's shit like this that makes me think you're just suppressing your inner gay with a shell of homophobia>shitposting in serious
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:51:37 PMQuote from: Rape Culture on March 02, 2015, 08:50:40 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:46:49 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 08:23:02 PMThe fact that Rocket doesn't get bothered by the troll attempts irks me for some reason.1 Corinthians 13:4-84 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.it's shit like this that makes me think you're just suppressing your inner gay with a shell of homophobia>shitposting in seriousyou just did it too
Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 03:35:34 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day. I'm guessing Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's love--his dying on the cross an expression of the lengths of said love. All God wants in the end is for us to acknowledge this and accept it.Assuming God is real.
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day.
-snip-
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 07:48:09 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 03:35:34 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day. I'm guessing Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's love--his dying on the cross an expression of the lengths of said love. All God wants in the end is for us to acknowledge this and accept it.Assuming God is real.Nailed it.Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 08:25:41 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:18:34 PMAccepting Christ as Savior is all you need. That's it.But then God's love isn't unconditional. If you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, that's a condition to not get banished to the depths of hell for eternity.God's unconditional love is demonstrated in the fact He gave you the opportunity for redemption, and also allows you to choose freely to accept or reject it. Sin isn't just sweeped under the rug, but He's given you all you need to free yourself from it.It's all up to you.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 09:03:31 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 07:48:09 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 03:35:34 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day. I'm guessing Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's love--his dying on the cross an expression of the lengths of said love. All God wants in the end is for us to acknowledge this and accept it.Assuming God is real.Nailed it.Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."But if Jesus' sacrifice didn't absolve us of our sins, what was the point in his sacrifice?
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:51:04 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 08:25:41 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:18:34 PMAccepting Christ as Savior is all you need. That's it.But then God's love isn't unconditional. If you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, that's a condition to not get banished to the depths of hell for eternity.God's unconditional love is demonstrated in the fact He gave you the opportunity for redemption, and also allows you to choose freely to accept or reject it. Sin isn't just sweeped under the rug, but He's given you all you need to free yourself from it.It's all up to you.Doesn't seem like he's actually giving you much of a choice.
1 Corinthians 13 13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Revelation 3:15-16"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth."
Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 09:20:32 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 09:03:31 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 07:48:09 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 03:35:34 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day. I'm guessing Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's love--his dying on the cross an expression of the lengths of said love. All God wants in the end is for us to acknowledge this and accept it.Assuming God is real.Nailed it.Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."But if Jesus' sacrifice didn't absolve us of our sins, what was the point in his sacrifice?It does, but only if you accept Christ as savior. It's a gift you have the choice of accepting or rejecting. then your sins are removed, but you aren't a perfect sinless being then. You need to walk with Christ, be made clean daily, pursue a relationship with Him. Because the more you fellowship like Christ, the more you become like Him.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 10:38:29 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 09:20:32 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 09:03:31 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 07:48:09 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 03:35:34 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day. I'm guessing Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's love--his dying on the cross an expression of the lengths of said love. All God wants in the end is for us to acknowledge this and accept it.Assuming God is real.Nailed it.Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."But if Jesus' sacrifice didn't absolve us of our sins, what was the point in his sacrifice?It does, but only if you accept Christ as savior. It's a gift you have the choice of accepting or rejecting. then your sins are removed, but you aren't a perfect sinless being then. You need to walk with Christ, be made clean daily, pursue a relationship with Him. Because the more you fellowship like Christ, the more you become like Him....and that's what we call a condition.
Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 03:35:34 PMBut if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?My philosophy teacher, who's a Christian, can't answer that. So I've been waiting to ask Turkey >.>
But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?
Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 11:50:17 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 10:38:29 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 09:20:32 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 09:03:31 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 07:48:09 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 03:35:34 PMQuote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day. I'm guessing Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's love--his dying on the cross an expression of the lengths of said love. All God wants in the end is for us to acknowledge this and accept it.Assuming God is real.Nailed it.Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."But if Jesus' sacrifice didn't absolve us of our sins, what was the point in his sacrifice?It does, but only if you accept Christ as savior. It's a gift you have the choice of accepting or rejecting. then your sins are removed, but you aren't a perfect sinless being then. You need to walk with Christ, be made clean daily, pursue a relationship with Him. Because the more you fellowship like Christ, the more you become like Him....and that's what we call a condition.That's not a condition. The cleansing of sin was not automatically handed out. It is given to those who want it.Not a condition, but a choice.
Is there a condition to get to Heaven? Yeah, accept a free gift.(which is hardly a condition at all since its so easy to acquire)But God's love does not have a condition.
Did Jesus only die for Christians, then? What about the rest of the sinners in the world?QuoteIs there a condition to get to Heaven? Yeah, accept a free gift.(which is hardly a condition at all since its so easy to acquire)But God's love does not have a condition.So God loved everyone he drowned in the great flood? That's not something a loving person does...
I don't understand how God made everything, except he didn't if Sin exists.That means that Satan can create things independantly, which means God didn't create everything and is no longer infallible.And if he didn't see Satan creating things in his magical foresight, then he doesn't have omniscienceAnd omniscience is pretty much his main shtick."God sees everything etc etc"EDIT: Used omnipotence when I should've said omniscience.
"Hey guys. If you don't want eternal damnation in Hell, that may or may not exist by the way, then you need to worship me. I'm not going to prove I exist but I expect you to blindly worship me anyway in the off chance that Heaven and Hell actually exist.I still love all of you though, but if you don't worship me then your belong in Hell because I'm an egotistical shithead" - God
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 06:27:57 PMIt was a way to atone for sins. And shepherds would sacrifice the single best lamb of their livestock. Not the worst, the sick. That was out of gratitude for God giving them livestock at all.So God, the guy you pray to, thinks its reasonable to have stone age shepherds slaughter their most valuable economic in a show of devotion despite the fact that he--being omniscient--could deduce that anyway if he wanted to?
It was a way to atone for sins. And shepherds would sacrifice the single best lamb of their livestock. Not the worst, the sick. That was out of gratitude for God giving them livestock at all.
It's my personal belief that Jesus' death absolved humanity for its sins. Until judgment day everyone goes to purgatory (a waiting room). On judgment day everyone is given an account of their sins, and can choose to either seek forgiveness (accepting God as the one true god and Jesus as His son) or deny God's will. The former will go to Heaven, the latter to Hell. That's the only way I see that works with scripture and explains whether or not an isolated tribesman in the Amazon who has never heard of God still gets a chance.Assuming God is real, of course.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 02, 2015, 05:51:31 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMHumanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin.That isn't perfect, then. QuoteBefore the Cross, we didn't have a chance at Salvation. So all of the humans 188,000 years before the life of Christ are in Hell? Fuck, what about the archaic humans like Homo sapiens idaltu and the Neanderthals, where are they?Actually, I made a mistake there.People back then did have a chance at Salvation, like in Old Testament times. Basically, as my comment to Barracuda stated, Israel would give an annual "sin offering".So those who lived righteous lives, like Noah and Moses, they aren't in Hell. They went to a place called "Abraham's bosom". It wasn't Heaven, but it wasn't Hell either. Nor was it Purgatory.So the righteous weren't condemned, but Salvation wasn't as acquirable as it is through Christ.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMHumanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin.That isn't perfect, then. QuoteBefore the Cross, we didn't have a chance at Salvation. So all of the humans 188,000 years before the life of Christ are in Hell? Fuck, what about the archaic humans like Homo sapiens idaltu and the Neanderthals, where are they?
Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin.
Before the Cross, we didn't have a chance at Salvation.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:55:56 PMQuote from: Meta Cognition on March 02, 2015, 05:51:31 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMHumanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin.That isn't perfect, then. QuoteBefore the Cross, we didn't have a chance at Salvation. So all of the humans 188,000 years before the life of Christ are in Hell? Fuck, what about the archaic humans like Homo sapiens idaltu and the Neanderthals, where are they?Actually, I made a mistake there.People back then did have a chance at Salvation, like in Old Testament times. Basically, as my comment to Barracuda stated, Israel would give an annual "sin offering".So those who lived righteous lives, like Noah and Moses, they aren't in Hell. They went to a place called "Abraham's bosom". It wasn't Heaven, but it wasn't Hell either. Nor was it Purgatory.So the righteous weren't condemned, but Salvation wasn't as acquirable as it is through Christ.But Abraham didn't found the religion until around 2500 B.C.E. So you're telling me all the Human species before that are just burning in hell? I'm sorry, but your God is a fucking dick.
Quote from: Tackelberry on March 08, 2015, 09:14:06 AMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:55:56 PMQuote from: Meta Cognition on March 02, 2015, 05:51:31 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMHumanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin.That isn't perfect, then. QuoteBefore the Cross, we didn't have a chance at Salvation. So all of the humans 188,000 years before the life of Christ are in Hell? Fuck, what about the archaic humans like Homo sapiens idaltu and the Neanderthals, where are they?Actually, I made a mistake there.People back then did have a chance at Salvation, like in Old Testament times. Basically, as my comment to Barracuda stated, Israel would give an annual "sin offering".So those who lived righteous lives, like Noah and Moses, they aren't in Hell. They went to a place called "Abraham's bosom". It wasn't Heaven, but it wasn't Hell either. Nor was it Purgatory.So the righteous weren't condemned, but Salvation wasn't as acquirable as it is through Christ.But Abraham didn't found the religion until around 2500 B.C.E. So you're telling me all the Human species before that are just burning in hell? I'm sorry, but your God is a fucking dick.Stop "trolling" and read Acts 17:31 moron.
Can someone help me understand God, sin, and Jesus' sacrifice?
