Can someone help me understand God, sin, and Jesus' sacrifice?

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Some things just don't line up.

Here's what we know:
- God's love is unconditional
- Jesus died for our sins

God, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. Later, Jesus died and paid the debt on our sins. However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins.

...why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness? If God's love is truly unconditional, why must we still seek forgiveness for the sins that Jesus died to cleanse us of?


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This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol


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It's my personal belief that Jesus' death absolved humanity for its sins.  Until judgment day everyone goes to purgatory (a waiting room).  On judgment day everyone is given an account of their sins, and can choose to either seek forgiveness (accepting God as the one true god and Jesus as His son) or deny God's will.  The former will go to Heaven, the latter to Hell.  That's the only way I see that works with scripture and explains whether or not an isolated tribesman in the Amazon who has never heard of God still gets a chance.

Assuming God is real, of course.


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My stupidity is self evident.
This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
you're telling them god made them retarded lol


aREALgod | Legendary Invincible!
 
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This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
you're telling them god made them retarded lol

You should see this comment chain, it's too good. I don't know how they haven't picked up on my trolling yet, this is too easy.


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Quote
Assuming God is real, of course.
But of course.
It's my personal belief that Jesus' death absolved humanity for its sins.  Until judgment day everyone goes to purgatory (a waiting room).  On judgment day everyone is given an account of their sins, and can choose to either seek forgiveness (accepting God as the one true god and Jesus as His son) or deny God's will.  The former will go to Heaven, the latter to Hell.  That's the only way I see that works with scripture and explains whether or not an isolated tribesman in the Amazon who has never heard of God still gets a chance.
But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?

It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day.
Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 03:39:24 PM by Mad Max


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?
My philosophy teacher, who's a Christian, can't answer that.

So I've been waiting to ask Turkey >.>


 
 
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<.<
This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
Link plix


 
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This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
you're telling them god made them retarded lol

You should see this comment chain, it's too good. I don't know how they haven't picked up on my trolling yet, this is too easy.

Bruh

It's youtube.


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This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
Link plix

Spoiler
Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 04:48:47 PM by LC


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This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
you're telling them god made them retarded lol

You should see this comment chain, it's too good. I don't know how they haven't picked up on my trolling yet, this is too easy.

Bruh

It's youtube.

LC pls

Don't downplay my youtube fun :(


 
big sponge
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This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
you're telling them god made them retarded lol

You should see this comment chain, it's too good. I don't know how they haven't picked up on my trolling yet, this is too easy.

Bruh

It's youtube.

LC pls

Don't downplay my youtube fun :(

These are the people who gave Pewdiepie 240k likes on facebook because he said he had just drank some milk.


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My stupidity is self evident.
This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
you're telling them god made them retarded lol

You should see this comment chain, it's too good. I don't know how they haven't picked up on my trolling yet, this is too easy.

Bruh

It's youtube.

LC pls

Don't downplay my youtube fun :(

These are the people who gave Pewdiepie 240k likes on facebook because he said he had just drank some milk.
just because they're retarded doesn't mean we can't laugh


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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
>trying to find logic in a 2000 year old desert tome written by tribal scumfucks

c'mon max


 
Luciana
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This feels oddly similar to a youtube comment chain I'm currently trolling in. Apparently atheists get upset when you tell them God made them wrong just to send them to Hell lol
you're telling them god made them retarded lol

You should see this comment chain, it's too good. I don't know how they haven't picked up on my trolling yet, this is too easy.
Link please

I gotta remember this for the future.

Edit: Nvm I see it
Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 05:45:17 PM by Luciana


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I neither fear, nor despise.
God, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful.

At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.

Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.


However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins.

...why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?

Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.
Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.

Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.

Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 05:56:31 PM by Val 'Ketam


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My stupidity is self evident.
God, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful.

At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.

Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.


However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins.

...why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?

Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.

This sounds like God is playing by someone else's rules, like he had to meet a prerequisite before he could get us allowed back in.

Just what it sounds like.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin.
That isn't perfect, then.

Quote
Before the Cross, we didn't have a chance at Salvation.
So all of the humans 188,000 years before the life of Christ are in Hell?

Fuck, what about the archaic humans like Homo sapiens idaltu and the Neanderthals, where are they?


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I neither fear, nor despise.
God, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful.

At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.

Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.


However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins.

...why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?

Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.

This sounds like God is playing by someone else's rules, like he had to meet a prerequisite before he could get us allowed back in.

Just what it sounds like.

Well yeah, sin is separation from God.

God the Father, is the righteous god  who doesn't tolerate sin. Before Christ, Israel had an annual "sin offering" made to seek forgiveness of their nation's sins. They had to sacrifice the best of the lambs, stuff like that.

Christ the son, was the sacrificial offering for humanities' sins, the "Lamb of God". He made it to where that old practice was null and void. One sacrifice, one offering, for all eternity.


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I neither fear, nor despise.
Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin.
That isn't perfect, then.

Quote
Before the Cross, we didn't have a chance at Salvation.
So all of the humans 188,000 years before the life of Christ are in Hell?

Fuck, what about the archaic humans like Homo sapiens idaltu and the Neanderthals, where are they?

Actually, I made a mistake there.

People back then did have a chance at Salvation, like in Old Testament times. Basically, as my comment to Barracuda stated, Israel would give an annual "sin offering".

So those who lived righteous lives, like Noah and Moses, they aren't in Hell. They went to a place called "Abraham's bosom". It wasn't Heaven, but it wasn't Hell either. Nor was it Purgatory.

So the righteous weren't condemned, but Salvation wasn't as acquirable as it is through Christ.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Israel would give an annual "sin offering".
Now why does that sound like animal sacrifice?

Quote
but Salvation wasn't as acquirable as it is through Christ.
That still doesn't seem very just. Well, neither does the idea of original sin but there you go.


 
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I don't understand how God made everything, except he didn't if Sin exists.
That means that Satan can create things independantly, which means God didn't create everything and is no longer infallible.
And if he didn't see Satan creating things in his magical foresight, then he doesn't have omniscience
And omniscience is pretty much his main shtick.

"God sees everything etc etc"

EDIT: Used omnipotence when I should've said omniscience.
Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 06:19:36 PM by Nagato


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I neither fear, nor despise.
Now why does that sound like animal sacrifice?

Because it was.




 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Now why does that sound like animal sacrifice?

Because it was.
Now what the hell does Yahweh want with dead animals?


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I neither fear, nor despise.
God, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful.

At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.

Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.


However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins.

...why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?

Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.
Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.

Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.
How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.

Let me just summarize very easily:


sin = separation from God

If humanity is sinful, it is separated

Christ = redemption from sin

Through Christ, there is no more separation from God. He opens that pathway up for any who choose it.


If you weren't raised in the Church and never really were around it, I could see why it sounds odd to some degree.
But it makes sense if you explain it in a simplistic fashion.



 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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I neither fear, nor despise.
Now why does that sound like animal sacrifice?

Because it was.
Now what the hell does Yahweh want with dead animals?

It was a way to atone for sins. And shepherds would sacrifice the single best lamb of their livestock. Not the worst, the sick. That was out of gratitude for God giving them livestock at all.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
God, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful.

At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.

Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.


However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins.

...why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?

Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.
Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.

Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.
How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.

Let me just summarize very easily:


sin = separation from God

If humanity is sinful, it is separated

Christ = redemption from sin

Through Christ, there is no more separation from God. He opens that pathway up for any who choose it.


If you weren't raised in the Church and never really were around it, I could see why it sounds odd to some degree.
But it makes sense if you explain it in a simplistic fashion.
That doesn't excuse God from making sin, though.

There's no such thing as a state of inaction, not even for us, let alone an omniscient and omnipotent deity. There's no such thing as not acting.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
It was a way to atone for sins. And shepherds would sacrifice the single best lamb of their livestock. Not the worst, the sick. That was out of gratitude for God giving them livestock at all.
So God, the guy you pray to, thinks its reasonable to have stone age shepherds slaughter their most valuable economic in a show of devotion despite the fact that he--being omniscient--could deduce that anyway if he wanted to?