Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 06:21:18 PMQuote from: challengerX on March 02, 2015, 06:05:33 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PMGod, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.Let me just summarize very easily:sin = separation from GodIf humanity is sinful, it is separatedChrist = redemption from sinThrough Christ, there is no more separation from God. He opens that pathway up for any who choose it.If you weren't raised in the Church and never really were around it, I could see why it sounds odd to some degree.But it makes sense if you explain it in a simplistic fashion.That doesn't excuse God from making sin, though. There's no such thing as a state of inaction, not even for us, let alone an omniscient and omnipotent deity. There's no such thing as not acting.
Quote from: challengerX on March 02, 2015, 06:05:33 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PMGod, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.Let me just summarize very easily:sin = separation from GodIf humanity is sinful, it is separatedChrist = redemption from sinThrough Christ, there is no more separation from God. He opens that pathway up for any who choose it.If you weren't raised in the Church and never really were around it, I could see why it sounds odd to some degree.But it makes sense if you explain it in a simplistic fashion.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PMGod, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.
Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PMGod, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.
God, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful.
However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 06:33:22 PMQuote from: Meta Cognition on March 02, 2015, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 06:21:18 PMQuote from: challengerX on March 02, 2015, 06:05:33 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PMGod, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.Let me just summarize very easily:sin = separation from GodIf humanity is sinful, it is separatedChrist = redemption from sinThrough Christ, there is no more separation from God. He opens that pathway up for any who choose it.If you weren't raised in the Church and never really were around it, I could see why it sounds odd to some degree.But it makes sense if you explain it in a simplistic fashion.That doesn't excuse God from making sin, though. There's no such thing as a state of inaction, not even for us, let alone an omniscient and omnipotent deity. There's no such thing as not acting.God didn't make sin. It was born out of Lucifer's jealousy towards God. That's where it came from.God didn't form this little black ball called "sin" and say "ok, let's keep this away form everyone. Because its bad".Why did he allow sin to be created?
Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 02, 2015, 06:29:10 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 06:21:18 PMQuote from: challengerX on March 02, 2015, 06:05:33 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PMGod, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.Let me just summarize very easily:sin = separation from GodIf humanity is sinful, it is separatedChrist = redemption from sinThrough Christ, there is no more separation from God. He opens that pathway up for any who choose it.If you weren't raised in the Church and never really were around it, I could see why it sounds odd to some degree.But it makes sense if you explain it in a simplistic fashion.That doesn't excuse God from making sin, though. There's no such thing as a state of inaction, not even for us, let alone an omniscient and omnipotent deity. There's no such thing as not acting.God didn't make sin. It was born out of Lucifer's jealousy towards God. That's where it came from.God didn't form this little black ball called "sin" and say "ok, let's keep this away form everyone. Because its bad".
God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMGod didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy.This would indicate that Lucifer is more powerful than God, if Lucifer has the ability to create something that God cannot stop.Unless God CAN stop it, but chooses not to, which would indicate he's not the loving God that people say he is.
Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 06:48:55 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMGod didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy.This would indicate that Lucifer is more powerful than God, if Lucifer has the ability to create something that God cannot stop.Unless God CAN stop it, but chooses not to, which would indicate he's not the loving God that people say he is.He's not a loving god when he snuffs out all those animals with that flood that did nothing to him.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 06:21:18 PMQuote from: challengerX on March 02, 2015, 06:05:33 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 05:46:07 PMQuote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PMGod, for whatever reason, decided to create things that were sinful. At the time of Creation, humans were not sinful. They were perfect, undefiled. And God didn't create sin itself. Sin's creation came when Lucifer rebelled against God out of jealousy. That desire to be above God, was where sin came into the picture. That desire.Humanity was perfect, sinless, then they chose to sin. That's why humanity is now sinful by nature: because the very first 2 people sinned, and sin stains deep.Quote from: Mad Max on March 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM However, we must still seek forgiveness for ours sins....why? If Jesus' death was to absolve us of our sins, why must we still seek forgiveness?Jesus didn't take humanities' sins and erase them. What He actually did, was make a way, open a door.Salvation is a gift yes, but it's also a choice on your part. You are not forced to make Christ your savior, you are not forced to live in Fellowship with Him.Jesus gave us the choice of eternal life. And even afterward, we must seek forgiveness daily. Seek renewing. Because we sin daily, we mess up our clean slate over and over, but over and over Christ offers that endless forgiveness.How do you believe in this bullshit dude? I mean damn, say it out loud and listen to what you're saying, then read some factual stuff about our origins and realize were just advanced animals.Let me just summarize very easily:sin = separation from GodIf humanity is sinful, it is separatedChrist = redemption from sinThrough Christ, there is no more separation from God. He opens that pathway up for any who choose it.If you weren't raised in the Church and never really were around it, I could see why it sounds odd to some degree.But it makes sense if you explain it in a simplistic fashion.I was raised in the church.This is my original point>god wants to do something("bridge the gap")>why does god need a blood sacrifice to do it?He's literally the wellspring. Why does it seem like he has to meet a requirement in a reality that he is the originator of?I'm gonna leave you alone after this, seems like there are enough people bothering you.
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 03:26:16 PM-snip-But if that's the case, what's the whole point in Jesus' sacrifice? If Jesus' death on the cross doesn't absolve us of our sins, why is "Jesus died for your sins" perpetuated?It would seem that if you removed Jesus' death entirely, the end result would still be the same - having to answer for your sins on judgement day.
-snip-
Got a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?This fedora tipper can answer that.Jesus was apparently supposed to be the sacrifice to end sacrifices.Not sure why god had to have us kill him so we could stop slaughtering our farm animals tho.
Quote from: SexyBarracuda on March 02, 2015, 07:58:46 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?This fedora tipper can answer that.Jesus was apparently supposed to be the sacrifice to end sacrifices.Not sure why god had to have us kill him so we could stop slaughtering our farm animals tho.Oh I see, this deity is one bloodthirsty fellow <.<I might have to reappraise my religious beliefs a little now.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 08:01:21 PMQuote from: SexyBarracuda on March 02, 2015, 07:58:46 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?This fedora tipper can answer that.Jesus was apparently supposed to be the sacrifice to end sacrifices.Not sure why god had to have us kill him so we could stop slaughtering our farm animals tho.Oh I see, this deity is one bloodthirsty fellow <.<I might have to reappraise my religious beliefs a little now.>tfw jesus is khorne
Quote from: SexyBarracuda on March 02, 2015, 08:04:39 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 08:01:21 PMQuote from: SexyBarracuda on March 02, 2015, 07:58:46 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?This fedora tipper can answer that.Jesus was apparently supposed to be the sacrifice to end sacrifices.Not sure why god had to have us kill him so we could stop slaughtering our farm animals tho.Oh I see, this deity is one bloodthirsty fellow <.<I might have to reappraise my religious beliefs a little now.>tfw jesus is khorneI didn't want to say it incase LC is lurking around here with a boltpistol.But fuck yeah, God is actually Khorne
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?Before Christ, you gave a "sin offering" of a lamb.Jesus is the ultimate "sin offering", hence being called the "Lamb of God".Old Testament was before Christ, New Testament was before during and after His time.
Quote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:09:00 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?Before Christ, you gave a "sin offering" of a lamb.Jesus is the ultimate "sin offering", hence being called the "Lamb of God".Old Testament was before Christ, New Testament was before during and after His time.Well what if I value the life of an innocent creature above saving my own hide to get into the afterlife?Does that count for something or does it not satiate khorne enough?Because regardless of the bible's teachings, I wouldn't kill an animal to get into any afterlife. Meatbags, maybe. But not animals.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 08:11:23 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:09:00 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?Before Christ, you gave a "sin offering" of a lamb.Jesus is the ultimate "sin offering", hence being called the "Lamb of God".Old Testament was before Christ, New Testament was before during and after His time.Well what if I value the life of an innocent creature above saving my own hide to get into the afterlife?Does that count for something or does it not satiate khorne enough?Because regardless of the bible's teachings, I wouldn't kill an animal to get into any afterlife. Meatbags, maybe. But not animals.Traditional beliefs from Christianity/Judaic religions was that God gave animals and the world for Man to do whatever he wants with. Hence why the life of a cow, goat, sheep, etc. didn't matter to them more than as something to use.This is theorized, iirc, to be in part why plenty of people today act the same way not giving a shit about the land or the planet and just doing whatever they want they seem valuable with it.
The fact that Rocket doesn't get bothered by the troll attempts irks me for some reason.
Accepting Christ as Savior is all you need. That's it.
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on March 02, 2015, 08:16:54 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 08:11:23 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:09:00 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?Before Christ, you gave a "sin offering" of a lamb.Jesus is the ultimate "sin offering", hence being called the "Lamb of God".Old Testament was before Christ, New Testament was before during and after His time.Well what if I value the life of an innocent creature above saving my own hide to get into the afterlife?Does that count for something or does it not satiate khorne enough?Because regardless of the bible's teachings, I wouldn't kill an animal to get into any afterlife. Meatbags, maybe. But not animals.Traditional beliefs from Christianity/Judaic religions was that God gave animals and the world for Man to do whatever he wants with. Hence why the life of a cow, goat, sheep, etc. didn't matter to them more than as something to use.This is theorized, iirc, to be in part why plenty of people today act the same way not giving a shit about the land or the planet and just doing whatever they want they seem valuable with it.Right so... other living creatures have no feelings then? <_<Cause that doesn't sound like a particularly nice god, I get that he put them here for food and shit but to sacrifice them like that... it's kinda wasteful.But apologies is this is getting incoherent, because I am getting incoherent. Lol.
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on March 02, 2015, 08:16:54 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 08:11:23 PMQuote from: Val 'Ketam on March 02, 2015, 08:09:00 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on March 02, 2015, 07:56:06 PMGot a little question for the theologians here <.<Why does the old testament god demand blood sacrifices and why does the new testament god not? Or am I missing something here?Before Christ, you gave a "sin offering" of a lamb.Jesus is the ultimate "sin offering", hence being called the "Lamb of God".Old Testament was before Christ, New Testament was before during and after His time.Well what if I value the life of an innocent creature above saving my own hide to get into the afterlife?Does that count for something or does it not satiate khorne enough?Because regardless of the bible's teachings, I wouldn't kill an animal to get into any afterlife. Meatbags, maybe. But not animals.Traditional beliefs from Christianity/Judaic religions was that God gave animals and the world for Man to do whatever he wants with. Hence why the life of a cow, goat, sheep, etc. didn't matter to them more than as something to use.This is theorized, iirc, to be in part why plenty of people today act the same way not giving a shit about the land or the planet and just doing whatever they want they seem valuable with it.Define "plenty".
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on March 02, 2015, 08:23:02 PMThe fact that Rocket doesn't get bothered by the troll attempts irks me for some reason.1 Corinthians 13:4-84 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.
Can someone help me understand God, sin, and Jesus' sacrifice?
