Can animals have rights?

More Than Mortal · January 23, 2015, 02:21:28 PM

I've been struggling with the idea that animals have rights. It seems to me that having rights implies obligations (you're obligated to not murder your neighbour), but how can we grant rights to the likes of those who lack the cognitive ability to even conceive of such concepts in the first place?

Do rights imply obligations?

Mad Max · January 23, 2015, 02:22:33 PM

I think most living beings deserve not to be tortured, killed, beaten, etc and you should be punished if you do.

More Than Mortal · January 23, 2015, 02:23:52 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on January 23, 2015, 02:22:33 PM

I think most living beings deserve not to be tortured, killed, beaten, etc and you should be punished if you do.

Yes, but the point is: how can we legally endow chimps with a right not to be murdered when, essentially, such a right doesn't exist within any chimp community known? If the right to not be murdered implies an obligation for others to not murder you, how can animals have rights? Seeing as they can't conceive of duty.

Camnator · January 23, 2015, 02:24:02 PM

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Camnator · January 23, 2015, 02:25:55 PM

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More Than Mortal · January 23, 2015, 02:26:46 PM

Quote from: Camnator on January 23, 2015, 02:24:02 PM

They have all of the same rights as us, and I applaud India for recognizing dolphins as non-human persons.

I'm quite a big believer in the personhood of certain animals like dolphins, elephants and chimpanzees (or used to be, anyway). I'm just not sure if its personhood, in a proper sense, if the dolphins (or whatever) can't conceive of their obligation to respect the personhood of one another.

Like, we understand it. But I'm not entirely sure if it's really applicable to animals.

Camnator · January 23, 2015, 02:28:35 PM

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Word Wizard · January 23, 2015, 02:28:41 PM

I think sentient animals deserve certain rights, like not to be tortured or abused. Spiders though... fuck spiders.

Camnator · January 23, 2015, 02:30:17 PM

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challengerX · January 23, 2015, 03:08:25 PM

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Camnator · January 23, 2015, 03:12:39 PM

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Jocephalopod · January 23, 2015, 03:20:03 PM

most animals would confiscate an individual's basic human rights in a heartbeat without consciously realizing it. The only right an animal deserves to have is the right to live a natural life and die a natural death.

although I don't really feel sympathetic towards lab rats....

Turkey · January 23, 2015, 03:22:24 PM

I think sentience entails a degree of dignity and mercy. We should strive to never willingly torture, maim, or otherwise physically or psychologically traumatize a sentient animal, and when it is necessary or agreed upon to cause them harm (i.e., cattle or hunting) that it be done in a regulated and humane manner.

CyberGama · January 23, 2015, 03:27:06 PM

an animal can do whatever it wants, there not like human beings, plus there animals, they think like animals.

Camnator · January 23, 2015, 03:28:01 PM

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Dustin · January 24, 2015, 09:21:02 AM

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CND AAA Beef · January 24, 2015, 10:45:13 AM

Human rights? No.

Though I agree that most should have the right to be ethically treated, and in the case of livestock or wild game, ethically harvested. Of course everyone's definition of "ethically treated" is going to be different. I don't think people should be charged with animal cruelty because a rabbit decided to hop in front of a transport truck, for instance.