Quote from: Forgewolf on February 16, 2015, 09:07:19 AM

Hard to have an opinion on the matter when you are in an environment that heavily supports one side.

I hope you realize how incredibly ironic that statement is.

Nope?

I've experience both sides and the one with more childish arguments is the anti-gunners. Most of their points is due to a lack of common sense and how reality works.

Can't read the article right now, as long as this doesn't effect guns going into the wrong hands it's fine

Honestly the US has problem with the division of powers between state and federal.
In Canada, powers are divided depending on what it is under. Example, Medical and Education is under Provincial powers while Crime is under Federal. And like that other things are divided up.

Personally, certain guns should be banned but those are a small cases. Second there needs to be strong background check and testing before people get their guns. Third, there needs to be proper tracking of the guns which are known for inflicting massive damage in short amount of time. Immediate reporting of stolen weapons need to be done.

Last of all there needs to be stronger cracking down on illegal firearm and studies done on where they are coming from. South of the Border or is it stolen firearms?

Or do what the Swiss do which is you need a mandatory Military training before you get your gun. I would be okay with that. Yeah it is conscription but it can help filter out idiots who think having a gun makes them into some ultimate super hero. Overall most gun owners are responsible, but those few idiots always end up causing shit and problems for everyone else.

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 16, 2015, 10:14:42 AM

Quote from: Flee on February 16, 2015, 10:06:45 AM

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 16, 2015, 09:07:19 AM

Hard to have an opinion on the matter when you are in an environment that heavily supports one side.

I hope you realize how incredibly ironic that statement is.

Nope?

I've experience both sides and the one with more childish arguments is the anti-gunners. Most of their points is due to a lack of common sense and how reality works.

You genuinely don't see the irony in being one of the most well-known pro gun people on here, living in the single most pro-gun developed country in the entire world and having grown up and lived your entire life in an extreme pro-gun culture, and then dismissing other people's opinion solely on the fact that they live in an area where most people don't have free access to guns?

I sincerely hope you're joking and can admit that your own bias and background is just as "bad" as any of the most extreme anti-gun people.

Here's how it should go. Guns are good, have them if you want them. Don't want them? Don't get them, but don't push your anti-freedom just because your ignorantly scared of a tool. The anti-gun people's opinions don't matter because they want to limit or take away.. They bring nothing useful, just stories.

What do Pro-gunners do? They want to buy more guns, accessories, get better at hunting or targeting sporting and have a strong way of defending themselves from the cunt lords out there who would rather take than earn.

 Further limiting or banning guns destroys an economy too. So lets not forget the negative, economic impact the anti-gunners want to cause.

If anyone was gonna do it, it was gonna be Arizona. That's why I like them.

Quote from: Noëlle on February 15, 2015, 07:19:37 PM

Quote from: Luciana on February 15, 2015, 06:49:14 PM

While I understand where you're coming from, I think some American's are a little too gun happy who aren't qualified to own or use one. I hear you were in the Airforce, so you should have every right.

There are certainly people who should not have one, and from what I understand, the state would still have laws in place regarding background checks and who can and cannot own a gun. From my understanding it prevents unconstitutional gun laws from being enforced, which is a good thing.

Regarding me being in the Air Force, even if I were not, I still think I have every right to own a firearm. I have been around them my whole life because of my family, and know how to use them safely, and maintain them. I own eight firearms and have thousands of rounds of ammo in my closet and go shooting occasionally with my family, either to waste ammo and have fun, or to seriously practice aim and how to use each weapon effectively. Between everyone in my family we probably have around sixty firearms.

Now see, you sound like someone who knows what they are doing, and that's good. I support background checks and all that because I think it is safer and common sense, but I can understand the hate for getting them taken away.

Still, I think everything with moderation is decent, and I actually got kind of scared when my college mentioned what to do if a school shooting happened. I know chances are it WONT, but the fact I have to actually worry about that is kind of scary.

If everyone in the school carried, I guarentee talk of a school shooting wouldn't scare you.

>nullify a federal ruling

Shame that's impossible

I like how just completely ignored how I showed that you are probably among the most biased and one-sided people in this thread. I see that you have decided that completely dismissing Meta's opinion just because he's British is perfectly acceptable, yet coming to terms with your own extreme bias is absolutely out of the question. There's probably no point in trying to talk any sense in you, but I'll try anyways.

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 16, 2015, 06:52:13 PM

Here's how it should go. Guns are good, have them if you want them. Don't want them? Don't get them, but don't push your anti-freedom just because your ignorantly scared of a tool.

Wrong. You are completely ignoring the fact that by allowing other people to have guns, I am put in danger. By giving every moron the complete freedom to carry a gun on him in public, you are putting both me and my family at risk. As much as some people like to insist that "if you don't like it, don't get one" is an acceptable argument, it really isn't. Because when something affects me, my safety and my freedom, I have every right to concern myself with it.

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The anti-gun people's opinions don't matter because they want to limit or take away..

That isn't even an argument. "The people who were opposed to slavery didn't have a meaningful opinion because they just wanted to limit the rights of slave owners". Nice one. An argument supporting the removal of something isn't any less valid than one in favor of adding something.

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They bring nothing useful, just stories.

Yeah, just stories and quite a bit of statistical evidence that support the merits of gun control.

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What do Pro-gunners do? They want to buy more guns, accessories, get better at hunting or targeting sporting and have a strong way of defending themselves from the cunt lords out there who would rather take than earn.

Again, mere unfounded propaganda that completely ignores the reality of gun crime and designates everyone who doesn't agree with you as "cunt lords". The irony in you claiming that everyone in support of gun-control has nothing but "stories" to their name while you are doing just that is striking.

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Further limiting or banning guns destroys an economy too. So lets not forget the negative, economic impact the anti-gunners want to cause.

While this is indeed the first proper argument I've ever seen you make, it's hardly a convincing one. It's all about balancing interests and rights. And just like how the economic argument in favor of legalising slavery, human trafficking, sale and production of hard drugs also exists, it doesn't come close to being a justification on its own of allowing such an industry to exist.

I pride myself on keeping an open mind. If someone makes some good arguments, I will take them to heart and will let them change how I feel about the subject.

I realize that just like every single other person in this thread, I am shaped by my culture, upbringing and personal experiences that bring forth a certain degree of bias. This is only natural and perfectly acceptable. It is only when you allow your bias to cloud your judgment, as you clearly have, and remain stuck in close-mindedness while mindlessly regurgitating the same bullshit arguments over and over, simply dismissing anyone who disagrees and makes extremely valid arguments that refute your points as a "cunt gun grabbing idiot libtard" or something similar, that it becomes a real problem. I have no illusions that this will actually change the way you look at things, but at least I tried.

Except Slavery was a direct contradiction to the Declaration of Independence.. "That all men are created equal." Slaves were sub-human, how could they be equal to everyone else and still be a slave? There is nothing in the old documents contradicting gun ownership, but actually promote it. It was and still is for the safety and security of this nation, that all able bodied men and women to possess and carry.

 Owning a gun isn't a contradiction in the view of the ones who first created this nation long ago.

You can sit here all day saying just how open minded you are, as does anyone else, but a mind is only so open till it starts showing its own biases. You are right, its only natural.

My mind will not change till there are equal to or more gun VICTIMS than gun OWNERS in this country. After all, MORE guns = More killing, right?

By the way: The leading killers of Americans continue to be non-infectious diseases like heart disease, strokes and lung diseases. But one of the perpetual causes of death fell off the top 15 list this year: Homicides.Jan 11, 2012

Three years old yes, but how much did that change?

We need Heart, Stroke and Lung disease control more than we need gun control. Ban the cigarettes that kill more people per year than guns. Ban the hamburgers, twinkies and other junk food items that cause a stroke, which kill more people than guns.  <—That's all per year too

Want something more up to date?:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/health/cancer-care-asco-report/

Cancer is to become the #1 killer in the US. Shouldn't we ban unhealthy life style choices, ban pollution.  <—I'm sure guns give us Cancer though, right?

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 17, 2015, 08:23:11 AM

Except Slavery was a direct contradiction to the Declaration of Independence.. "That all men are created equal." Slaves were sub-human, how could they be equal to everyone else and still be a slave?

Well I mean

The founding fathers were a bunch of racist pigs with a handful of good ideas because they read a lot of Roman shit. Jefferson or Adams, forget which one, said gays should be castrated and dragged across the streets.

I bet they all shot each other a glance when they wrote "all men are created equal" because sadly in this GLORIOUS COUNTRY, it wasn't the case.

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There is nothing in the old documents contradicting gun ownership, but actually promote it.

Actually the argument can be made that it should be a well armed militia and not every single citizen having a gun. If they installed the Electorate College because they couldn't trust the citizens to make the right voting decisions, what makes you think they could fully trust them with guns?

I'm too lazy to read the rest. Not disagreeing with you, just bringing up some points.

The Electorate College was never intended to be a permitted system, nor was our country intended to be running on a two party system like it still is. I think at one time, we had at least five major, political parties?

A militia isn't suppose to be part of government, its suppose to be apart of THE PEOPLE. Otherwise, they would have said a well armed army or military, instead of militia.

I shouldn't have to wait 6 MONTHS, like I did with my current gun.

Damn! That is way too long for any purchase. What state?

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 17, 2015, 08:04:42 PM

The Electorate College was never intended to be a permitted system, nor was our country intended to be running on a two party system like it still is.

Which is why I think voting is pointless in this country to a degree, because in the end both Democrat and Republican are two sides of the same coin. They don't offer anything different enough to even be different parties aside from how to spend money and social issues. Good for them.

That's why I am in support of the Libertarian party. The only sane party with people that feel authentic.

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 17, 2015, 08:04:42 PM

Damn! That is way too long for any purchase. What state?

NJ

I feel for you man.

According to my LegalHeat app.. that state isn't very gun friendly. Surprisingly, its rated even worse than California in terms of Open Carry laws. 0_o. While Concealed Carried, they are rated the same.

Quote from: PSU on February 17, 2015, 09:59:38 AM

Flee, criminals are going to obtain guns whether they are illegal or not. Why shouldn't I (a citizen who pays his taxes and never been in serious trouble with the law) not be allowed to own one to protect myself, my family, and my belongings?

Because not all people can be trusted. In an ideal world, where we didn't have stupid, incompetent and irresponsible people lacking self control, I'd be all in favor of you being able to own a gun. But as I pointed out to Forge before, I feel that giving everybody virtually unlimited access to guns is going to end up being more likely to cause me and my family harm (because of other morons having their own guns) than it is going to be for me to defend them.

It's a pretty simple argument. I definitely see where you're coming from, but I do believe that I'm better off knowing that not every moron in my country can just walk into a store and get his hands on a gun.

I get you. I mean, I'm completely for background checks. But the government needs to seriously speed up those checks. It should be instant.

Walk into a gun store, give your ID, they plug it in to the computer, and give you an instant decision.

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 17, 2015, 10:21:49 PM

Quote from: PSU on February 17, 2015, 08:33:18 PM

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 17, 2015, 08:04:42 PM

Damn! That is way too long for any purchase. What state?

NJ

I feel for you man.

According to my LegalHeat app.. that state isn't very gun friendly. Surprisingly, its rated even worse than California in terms of Open Carry laws. 0_o. While Concealed Carried, they are rated the same.

Jersey is worse than LOLKOMMIFORNIA?!

LOL

Yeah.
If I'm in jersey and not driving directly to a range or directly home from a store that sells them, and I have HP ammo on my person or in my vehicle then I'm in serious legal trouble.

Quote from: Mad Max on February 18, 2015, 01:14:45 PM

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 17, 2015, 10:21:49 PM

Quote from: PSU on February 17, 2015, 08:33:18 PM

Quote from: Forgewolf on February 17, 2015, 08:04:42 PM

Damn! That is way too long for any purchase. What state?

NJ

I feel for you man.

According to my LegalHeat app.. that state isn't very gun friendly. Surprisingly, its rated even worse than California in terms of Open Carry laws. 0_o. While Concealed Carried, they are rated the same.

Jersey is worse than LOLKOMMIFORNIA?!

LOL

A 72 year old man was just arrested in New Jersey and charged with felony weapons possession. His crime? He had a flint lock pistol, unloaded, in the glove box. He faces 10 years in prison, and I believe NJ has a mandatory 5 year sentence for any weapons charge.

Yes, I read the story. I think it's funny that people shit on California all the time for our gun laws, but then this shit happens.