I'd dare to say that those who reap the benefits of AA are the middle-class who aren't the ones who need assistance. A black man with a degree most likely came from a middle-class family, not the horrible inner-city environments that cause the black statistical disadvantages. A person from that environment probably stays in that environment, doesn't get a higher education, and doesn't work for a major organization or firm that cares about statistics. AA is meant to remedy poverty, not reward blacks who aren't in poverty.

I keep trying not to say blacks specifically because AA applies to more but fuck it they are the largest minority group and the one we always talk about. Everyone knows Asians have more privilege than whites anyways.

Dude, you don't need really academic studies to demonstrate that AA at face value is simply just positive discrimination in favour of blacks. It's such a patently patronising outlook to have on minorities, and is only setting them up for failure by setting standards at such ridiculously low levels. If you genuinely believe all races are equal, then you should subscribe to the notion that they should not receive arbitrary privileges simply because of a demographic they belong to.

If you're still not convinced then Affirmative Action Around The World by economist Thomas Sowell is a fantastic academic paper debunking myriad myths surrounding AA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_Action_Around_the_World
http://www.economist.com/node/2765848

Positive discrimination is a valid way of putting it, yes. I disagree that it is patronizing though. I view it as a realistic response to the fact that history has been unkind to them. They are not inherently worse than anyone, but our society and history has put them at a major disadvantage. I believe that the races are equally well off so long as all else is equal, which has never been the case. AA is merely another attempt at bringing the current state of things closer to such an ideal.

You believe they are setting the standards too low; that might not be something I disagree with.

Thanks for linking something substantive though. Looks like a long one, I'll have to find time to read it later. Can't view the economist link though; I'm getting a paywall. Fuck that.

I'd dare to say that those who reap the benefits of AA are the middle-class who aren't the ones who need assistance. A black man with a degree most likely came from a middle-class family, not the horrible inner-city environments that cause the black statistical disadvantages. A person from that environment probably stays in that environment, doesn't get a higher education, and doesn't work for a major organization or firm that cares about statistics. AA is meant to remedy poverty, not reward blacks who aren't in poverty.

I keep trying not to say blacks specifically because AA applies to more but fuck it they are the largest minority group and the one we always talk about. Everyone knows Asians have more privilege than whites anyways.

Meh, like I was talking about with you, an interleaved poverty-based AA program could be instituted to augment what we have now. It would be more bureaucracy but it would address what is certainly an issue.

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 16, 2015, 03:34:04 AM

Dude, you don't need really academic studies to demonstrate that AA at face value is simply just positive discrimination in favour of blacks. It's such a patently patronising outlook to have on minorities, and is only setting them up for failure by setting standards at such ridiculously low levels. If you genuinely believe all races are equal, then you should subscribe to the notion that they should not receive arbitrary privileges simply because of a demographic they belong to.

If you're still not convinced then Affirmative Action Around The World by economist Thomas Sowell is a fantastic academic paper debunking myriad myths surrounding AA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_Action_Around_the_World
http://www.economist.com/node/2765848

Positive discrimination is a valid way of putting it, yes. I disagree that it is patronizing though. I view it as a realistic response to the fact that history has been unkind to them. They are not inherently worse than anyone, but our society and history has put them at a major disadvantage. I believe that the races are equally well off so long as all else is equal, which has never been the case. AA is merely another attempt at bringing the current state of things closer to such an ideal.

You believe they are setting the standards too low; that might not be something I disagree with.

Thanks for linking something substantive though. Looks like a long one, I'll have to find time to read it later. Can't view the economist link though; I'm getting a paywall. Fuck that.

See, I don't really buy into this self flagellation meme that white people should all be compensatory towards blacks because they happened to be enslaved some 300 odd years ago. No contemporary African American has ever been afflicted by institutionalized slavery, nor do I believe there is some kind of embedded oppression within society disadvantaging them. The playing fields have, by and large, been pretty much levelled for blacks sans maybe the judicial system.

I fail to see why we should start treating them like infants with no agency, and then setting them up to be discriminated within the work force. It's counter-productive at best, and damaging to both blacks and the people who have actually worked hard for their desired professions.

If you're a racist prick, stop acting like you shouldn't be called out on it.

>implying I'm racist

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 16, 2015, 03:38:34 PM

If you're a racist prick, stop acting like you shouldn't be called out on it.

>implying I'm racist

I'm not implying you are. But if you are or not, why care? Just tell them to fuck themselves and move along.

SJW's influence by guilt. If you aren't guilty then they have no power.

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 16, 2015, 04:12:25 PM

why care?

Because this is a growing trend among academia and students. I don't care so much that I was personally accused of racism, I care that such accusations can be thrown around on a limb by individuals who really should know better.

And? Higher ed has ALWAYS done this. Just write the papers to get the grade and tell all the University Warriors to pound sand.

True story: when I was a senior at UCSD, one of the barefoot PETA wannabes took issue with my leather jacket. His dumb ass came running up with a bucket of red paint. I reared up to punch him, and he backed off and started calling me a fascist.

Do you know what happened from this? Nothing. Not one thing.

I'm pretty liberal, that's well known. There are some causes I support, some I couldn't care less about. But those little bastards are just wannabes that only have what power you give them. Tell them to fuck themselves and all they can do is call you names. That's it.

Do you care when I say that every time I create a thread your aggressively gay uncle rapes your face? I hope not. So why care when one of these milktoasts call you racist?

Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 16, 2015, 04:13:50 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 16, 2015, 04:12:25 PM

why care?

Because this is a growing trend among academia and students. I don't care so much that I was personally accused of racism, I care that such accusations can be thrown around on a limb by individuals who really should know better.

And? Higher ed has ALWAYS done this. Just write the papers to get the grade and tell all the University Warriors to pound sand.

True story: when I was a senior at UCSD, one of the barefoot PETA wannabes took issue with my leather jacket. His dumb ass came running up with a bucket of red paint. I reared up to punch him, and he backed off and started calling me a fascist.

Do you know what happened from this? Nothing. Not one thing.

I'm pretty liberal, that's well known. There are some causes I support, some I couldn't care less about. But those little bastards are just wannabes that only have what power you give them. Tell them to fuck themselves and all they can do is call you names. That's it.

Do you care when I say that every time I create a thread your aggressively gay uncle rapes your face? I hope not. So why care when one of these milktoasts call you racist?

Stoic as fuck.

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 16, 2015, 04:28:34 PM

Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 16, 2015, 04:13:50 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 16, 2015, 04:12:25 PM

why care?

Because this is a growing trend among academia and students. I don't care so much that I was personally accused of racism, I care that such accusations can be thrown around on a limb by individuals who really should know better.

And? Higher ed has ALWAYS done this. Just write the papers to get the grade and tell all the University Warriors to pound sand.

True story: when I was a senior at UCSD, one of the barefoot PETA wannabes took issue with my leather jacket. His dumb ass came running up with a bucket of red paint. I reared up to punch him, and he backed off and started calling me a fascist.

Do you know what happened from this? Nothing. Not one thing.

I'm pretty liberal, that's well known. There are some causes I support, some I couldn't care less about. But those little bastards are just wannabes that only have what power you give them. Tell them to fuck themselves and all they can do is call you names. That's it.

Do you care when I say that every time I create a thread your aggressively gay uncle rapes your face? I hope not. So why care when one of these milktoasts call you racist?

Probably the best thing I've ever seen you post. Although I don't think it fundamentally undermines my concerns regarding academia, kudos.

Most in academia live in an ivory tower. Sure, back in the 60's and 70's they tried to make a difference. But they had little to no impact. Now they sit in their offices and comment.

Republicans have long took issue about the radicalism in university staffs. Yet, despite their concerns, what impact have these professors had? Did they stop 9/11, the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan? Did they get tougher banking laws passed to prevent the crash of 2006? No.

Like I said. Write the papers that get your A, smile at them and lie. Then leave their class and go on with your life. (Get used to lying BTW, it never ends. You may have a boss who is an idiot)

Just out of curiosity: if academics live in an ivory tower and are content to "sit in their offices and comment", why are Republicans so worried about radicalism in university staff? Especially considering the observation that they have no impact?

My personal opinion is that professors make for easy rhetoric. Most professors are waaay off the deep end when they speak. Simply put, they are easy targets.

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 16, 2015, 12:40:45 PM

See, I don't really buy into this self flagellation meme that white people should all be compensatory towards blacks because they happened to be enslaved some 300 odd years ago. No contemporary African American has ever been afflicted by institutionalized slavery, nor do I believe there is some kind of embedded oppression within society disadvantaging them. The playing fields have, by and large, been pretty much levelled for blacks sans maybe the judicial system.

I fail to see why we should start treating them like infants with no agency, and then setting them up to be discriminated within the work force. It's counter-productive at best, and damaging to both blacks and the people who have actually worked hard for their desired professions.

Do you believe that, in this case, blacks and whites occupy the same socioeconomic brackets/distributions? If not, why do you think they do not?

Obviously not, but giving blacks a hall pass through life without the proper tools isn't going to alleviate that.

Quote from: Tsirist on October 16, 2015, 05:33:49 PM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 16, 2015, 12:40:45 PM

See, I don't really buy into this self flagellation meme that white people should all be compensatory towards blacks because they happened to be enslaved some 300 odd years ago. No contemporary African American has ever been afflicted by institutionalized slavery, nor do I believe there is some kind of embedded oppression within society disadvantaging them. The playing fields have, by and large, been pretty much levelled for blacks sans maybe the judicial system.

I fail to see why we should start treating them like infants with no agency, and then setting them up to be discriminated within the work force. It's counter-productive at best, and damaging to both blacks and the people who have actually worked hard for their desired professions.

Do you believe that, in this case, blacks and whites occupy the same socioeconomic brackets/distributions? If not, why do you think they do not?

Obviously not, but giving blacks a hall pass through life without the proper tools isn't going to alleviate that.

It's hardly a hallpass

Setting the bar lower than other people are expected to pass on the basis of skin colour? That is a hall pass if I ever saw one.

welllll tbf a hall pass is sort of a binary thing. you have one or you don't, and its purpose is to confer the ability to use something you otherwise wouldn't

aa is a bit more complicated than that

I feel like class based Affirmative Action would be much more helpful than race based Affirmative Action.

If properly administered, this would work