I don't agree with the punch, but to give a sweeping statement as "free speech means you can say whatever you want" is really stupid if you ask me. There should be limits, and promoting white supremacy and ethnic cleansing is a limit too far for me. I guess it's just Americans that take the free speech thing super heavily, but the shit he's saying would never fly in Germany, or most of the other European nations.

Free speech is something to be cherished, but the moment it crosses over into trying to galvanize superiority over an entire race or another, is really something I can't say I support.

Again, don't agree with the punch, but no one should be surprised that if you're a white supremacist in America of all places, odds are you're going to get hit.

Well, no shit. I really want to punch the guy as well, but responding to something like that makes you no better than him. And I mean, this was a simple interview, he wasn't screaming out white supremacist speech at a rally or something. If that were the case, then he would've been arrested for instigating violence (hate speech).

Guys he was clearly punched for memeing in public, not because he's a nazi.

I don't think anybody is going to disagree that Richard Spencer getting a punch to the face was somewhat deserved and funny. The guy promotes horrible and regressive ideas.

But he is one of the prominent faces of white supremacy. Something amplified tenfold in America for its history of abuse of blacks. Just because he's not currently at a rally for it, doesn't suddenly disregard the things he's said in the past and the anger people have felt towards him.

Hitler (yes) wasn't always promoting the killing of Jews in every single one of his interviews, but that doesn't suddenly mean him walking around with his puppy suddenly absolves him of the rhetoric he set.

Edit: And idk. Violence is shit, but I don't think the dude that punched him is suddenly worse for not condemning an entire race of people. He's an idiot and should be arrested, but I don't think it's that simple.

Nothing really is. I just dropped my two cents. Yeah, he should be arrested, but he would get out scot free without an actual crime as proof.

beating up nazis definitely makes you better than them.

Actually it doesn't.

You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. The moment you act with physical violence towards someone like this throws all your credibility out the window.

Two wrongs don't make a right. All you're doing is degrading yourself the moment you attack them physically. Fight with words, not with fists.

Quote from: Yang on January 20, 2017, 10:00:58 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 09:58:18 PM

beating up nazis definitely makes you better than them.

Not really. It means that you can't handle your emotions and can't think like a reasonable human being. Yes, Nazi ideals should not be tolerated but beating the guy up isn't going to change his opinion nor none of those who think alike, in fact its going to boost them. The only way to fight these type of mentality is by spreading positive ideas into the public, drive these maniacs back. To proof that we are better than them, not at their level.

life isn't a fucking disney movie. you don't magically beat the nazis by protecting their rights and attempting to yell louder then them.

then what do you propose?

to completely disregard the U.S Constitution and go out on a witch hunt? that's going to cause even more chaos and would make anyone involve in it look like a bunch of brown shirts during the night of broken glass (ironically). its not that simple, and it would never happen. the only way to drive them out and keep them from obtaining power is by staying to true to our democratic ideals.

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 10:03:02 PM

Quote from: Yang on January 20, 2017, 10:00:58 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 09:58:18 PM

beating up nazis definitely makes you better than them.

Not really. It means that you can't handle your emotions and can't think like a reasonable human being. Yes, Nazi ideals should not be tolerated but beating the guy up isn't going to change his opinion nor none of those who think alike, in fact its going to boost them. The only way to fight these type of mentality is by spreading positive ideas into the public, drive these maniacs back. To proof that we are better than them, not at their level.

life isn't a fucking disney movie. you don't magically beat the nazis by protecting their rights and attempting to yell louder then them.

then what do you propose?

to completely disregard the U.S Constitution and go out on a witch hunt? that's going to cause even more chaos and would make anyone involve in it look like a bunch of brown shirts during the night of broken glass (ironically). its not that simple, and it would never happen. the only way to drive them out and keep them from obtaining power is by staying to true to our democratic ideals.

if our democratic ideals were enough to stop the rise of fascism, then i don't think we'd be in the shitstorm we are now. of course we need to establish and build a (better) proper democratic coalition for progress, but at the same time i think it's fine to turn a blind eye when things like this happen. nazis deserve far worse than a sucker punch and bending over backwards to protect nazis' rights is just disgusting.

edit: i realize the rhetoric i used here may be confusing. it's been a long day. let me explain. i think the current system is impotent and if we keep doing things the way we have been then the fascists will only become stronger. we need to revolutionize our thinking and our methodology.

Quote from: Yang on January 20, 2017, 10:06:37 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 10:03:02 PM

Quote from: Yang on January 20, 2017, 10:00:58 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 09:58:18 PM

beating up nazis definitely makes you better than them.

Not really. It means that you can't handle your emotions and can't think like a reasonable human being. Yes, Nazi ideals should not be tolerated but beating the guy up isn't going to change his opinion nor none of those who think alike, in fact its going to boost them. The only way to fight these type of mentality is by spreading positive ideas into the public, drive these maniacs back. To proof that we are better than them, not at their level.

life isn't a fucking disney movie. you don't magically beat the nazis by protecting their rights and attempting to yell louder then them.

then what do you propose?

to completely disregard the U.S Constitution and go out on a witch hunt? that's going to cause even more chaos and would make anyone involve in it look like a bunch of brown shirts during the night of broken glass (ironically). its not that simple, and it would never happen. the only way to drive them out and keep them from obtaining power is by staying to true to our democratic ideals.

if our democratic ideals were enough to stop the rise of fascism, then i don't think we'd be in the shitstorm we are now. of course we need to establish and build a proper democratic coalition for progress, but at the same time i think it's fine to turn a blind eye when things like this happen. nazis deserve far worse than a sucker punch and bending over backwards to protect nazis' rights is just disgusting.

"People I don't like are Nazis and we should attack them like childish buffoons"

Quote from: Yang on January 20, 2017, 10:25:03 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 10:19:35 PM

Quote from: Yang on January 20, 2017, 10:06:37 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 10:03:02 PM

Quote from: Yang on January 20, 2017, 10:00:58 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on January 20, 2017, 09:58:18 PM

beating up nazis definitely makes you better than them.

Not really. It means that you can't handle your emotions and can't think like a reasonable human being. Yes, Nazi ideals should not be tolerated but beating the guy up isn't going to change his opinion nor none of those who think alike, in fact its going to boost them. The only way to fight these type of mentality is by spreading positive ideas into the public, drive these maniacs back. To proof that we are better than them, not at their level.

life isn't a fucking disney movie. you don't magically beat the nazis by protecting their rights and attempting to yell louder then them.

then what do you propose?

to completely disregard the U.S Constitution and go out on a witch hunt? that's going to cause even more chaos and would make anyone involve in it look like a bunch of brown shirts during the night of broken glass (ironically). its not that simple, and it would never happen. the only way to drive them out and keep them from obtaining power is by staying to true to our democratic ideals.

if our democratic ideals were enough to stop the rise of fascism, then i don't think we'd be in the shitstorm we are now. of course we need to establish and build a (better) proper democratic coalition for progress, but at the same time i think it's fine to turn a blind eye when things like this happen. nazis deserve far worse than a sucker punch and bending over backwards to protect nazis' rights is just disgusting.

like many things you said, yeah i get it, but now its more about preventing the resurgence of extremists than quelling them. we shouldn't go out in hunting parties for them, and punching a man in the face still solves nothing.

le edit: yeah sure, we should totally reorganize our system, but we should totally do not degrade ourselves to their level

i think we can leave it here, a proper and civil place despite disagreement. you were receptive and i appreciate that. please understand that i can empathize with your position, despite my blunt disagreement; i thought along the same lines for quite a long time.

No problem!   

I just think that there should be a better way. That's all.

So what's with the white lives matter too much sign in the back there?

I'm kind of proud of the fact that I've never heard of this guy.

Quote from: Decimator Omega on January 21, 2017, 02:49:49 AM

Quote from: Sαndtrap on January 21, 2017, 01:31:41 AM

So what's with the white lives matter too much sign in the back there?

Black Lives Matter thinks we suck dick so...

No they don't. At least not the "leaders"/core movement, but BLM's issue is that it doesn't have a universal message other than "fight the oppression", and no end game goal like MLK's movement did. Granted, it was WAY easier to rally against easily defined segregation, but still. They could use a strong leader right about now to clarify a message rather than the mess it is right now.

Or, they hate white people because they're white. Just like the ones that attacked the mentally disabled kid in Chicago.

MLK must be rolling in his grave now.

Quote from: Decimator Omega on January 21, 2017, 03:47:20 AM

Quote from: Luciana on January 21, 2017, 03:14:31 AM

Quote from: Decimator Omega on January 21, 2017, 02:49:49 AM

Quote from: Sαndtrap on January 21, 2017, 01:31:41 AM

So what's with the white lives matter too much sign in the back there?

Black Lives Matter thinks we suck dick so...

No they don't. At least not the "leaders"/core movement, but BLM's issue is that it doesn't have a universal message other than "fight the oppression", and no end game goal like MLK's movement did. Granted, it was WAY easier to rally against easily defined segregation, but still. They could use a strong leader right about now to clarify a message rather than the mess it is right now.

Or, they hate white people because they're white. Just like the ones that attacked the mentally disabled kid in Chicago.

MLK must be rolling in his grave now.

Yeah, because a group of thugs and those that act out defines the entire movement and an group of people.

I suppose all of MLK's followers were pretty shit too since some followed Malcolm X as well, who promoted more violent means.

They lack unity and leadership, but to assume the entire movement is hating whites simply for hating whites, is looking at things in way too narrow a view, and paints the entire thing in a black and white way, and movements like that are anything but that.

Even with several bad apples in a so called movement harm another person because they're white, it delegitimatizes the point of BLM being a movement. You might as well as call it the black version of the KKK then.

Also, Black Lives Matter? Why not All Lives Matter? At least the lives of innocent people. It shouldn't be singled out to one race but whatever.

But anyway, with those people as an example, if BLM is suppose to be a good thing, they make it look bad, and frankly, I don't see it as a good thing. If I ever run across a BLM event going on here, I'm getting the far fuck out of there asap, because I bet you it would turn into a riot fast.