Quote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:16:12 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationismYou can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threatThere are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Quote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationism
Quote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Quote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't help
Quote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
Quote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:16:12 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationismYou can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threatThere are no other viable strategies for placating these peopleNot invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade. >US invades Syria >IS uses it as propaganda >IS grows and spreads
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.
RememberIt's not terrorism if they're white
Quote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:22:10 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:16:12 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationismYou can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threatThere are no other viable strategies for placating these peopleNot invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade. >US invades Syria >IS uses it as propaganda >IS grows and spreadsYou're not giving me an alternative to my two offerings.
Doing nothing is a viable strategy. The U.S is not the worlds police
Quote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:23:12 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:22:10 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:16:12 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationismYou can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threatThere are no other viable strategies for placating these peopleNot invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade. >US invades Syria >IS uses it as propaganda >IS grows and spreadsYou're not giving me an alternative to my two offerings.Doing nothing is a viable strategy. The U.S is not the worlds police
Quote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:22:10 PMNot invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade. Never understood why people say this. No terrorist organization, whether an insurgency or a standing army, wants an invasion by a Western coalition.
Quote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:26:08 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:23:12 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:22:10 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:16:12 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationismYou can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threatThere are no other viable strategies for placating these peopleNot invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade. >US invades Syria >IS uses it as propaganda >IS grows and spreadsYou're not giving me an alternative to my two offerings.Doing nothing is a viable strategy. The U.S is not the worlds policeThat is isolationism, friend.If you want to live in the fantasy world of that being true so be it but understand it's not. Whether you like it or not that's the role we have in the world as a superpower and there's no getting around it. That's what being a superpower is all about.
Quote from: Christmas dinner = Murder on December 02, 2015, 04:24:30 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:22:10 PMNot invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade. Never understood why people say this. No terrorist organization, whether an insurgency or a standing army, wants an invasion by a Western coalition.Their goal is to cause a great disruption to western culture and economy. If we invade Syria, then they are getting what they want. They are creating a huge disruption to the general public and economy if we invade.
Quote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:16:12 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationismYou can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threatThere are no other viable strategies for placating these peopleYeah because that worked so well in Iraq when the government was just as bad as Saddam's minus the gas.
The Islamic State's worst nightmare is a Desert Storm 2.
Quote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:30:30 PMQuote from: Christmas dinner = Murder on December 02, 2015, 04:24:30 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:22:10 PMNot invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade. Never understood why people say this. No terrorist organization, whether an insurgency or a standing army, wants an invasion by a Western coalition.Their goal is to cause a great disruption to western culture and economy. If we invade Syria, then they are getting what they want. They are creating a huge disruption to the general public and economy if we invade.They want the establishment of an autonomous state with a government inferred from a twisted interpretation of the Koran.The Islamic State's worst nightmare is a Desert Storm 2.
Quote from: Luciana on December 02, 2015, 04:39:03 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:16:12 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:15:39 PMQuote from: Septy on December 02, 2015, 04:13:18 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:06:37 PMDoesn't matter either way, honestly.It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.Warmongering doesn't helpAnd returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.Who said anything about isolationismYou can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threatThere are no other viable strategies for placating these peopleYeah because that worked so well in Iraq when the government was just as bad as Saddam's minus the gas.I burnt a loaf of bread the first time I tried baking.
These people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.
Quote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:41:06 PMThese people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.Yeah, the most devout and brainwashed of the footsoldiers who are mostly illiterate teens and twenty-somethings. Most insurgents don't explode. You can't hold ground when you're dead.Leadership is scared shitless of actual boot-on-ground intervention for any superpower or coalition.
Quote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:43:59 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:41:06 PMThese people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.Yeah, the most devout and brainwashed of the footsoldiers who are mostly illiterate teens and twenty-somethings. Most insurgents don't explode. You can't hold ground when you're dead.Leadership is scared shitless of actual boot-on-ground intervention for any superpower or coalition.Their ideas aren't going to die with them, I hope you know that.
Traditional methods of war have been demonstrated to be largely inefficient. The very treatment of ISIS and other terrorist groups as legitimate threats also contributes to their ego and motivation to continue acts of violence. Even the declaration of war against terrorism, in and of itself, is counterproductive to the goal of stopping it. As stated in The Nation, and following François Hollande declaring war on the Islamic State, “Actual states should not grant such legitimacy to small bands of violent criminals, and the deployment of the language and techniques of war is the best way to lose a campaign against them.” It is explained that France’s efforts to bomb targets in Syria will only further depict it and other UN members as ignorant and unconcerned for civilians, which will then provide ample opportunities for Jihadists to recruit victims of the conflict in dire need of a purpose and revenge. They will be “Groomed as heroes, as soldiers saving their people” (Juan Cole). Force cannot be used in a manner that will result in the destruction of targets who pose no threat, as this creates more threats in the future. This type of solution will contribute little to the greater purpose of eliminating ISIS and its influence from the world. The destruction of their legitimacy, not only their forces, will see greater contributions to the eventual removal of the Islamic State from world affairs. The governments united against the threat of extremism may eventually favor a type of social rejection of the threat in favor of direct confrontation, which directly contributes to what fuels the fire of militant Jihadists. As quoted in The New York Review of Books, an ISIS member directly stated that the organization wishes to “Expose the weakness of America’s centralized power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and war by proxy until it fights directly.” Some of the responses towards the group’s actions, both militarily and socially, have catered to these wishes (Blog, Scott Atran and Nafees Hamid). Media coverage, for example, only promotes the idea that ISIS is a legitimate state, and one whose threats citizens must be weary of. Terrorism is defined as “The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.” By removing the factors of intimidation and coercion, one can effectively kill the power associated with acts of terror— Ultimately, reactions of the public are what allow for ISIS to thrive. If the group is no longer formally recognized, and are seen as foolish or insignificant, then the supposedly glamorous caliphate that they declare will sunk further and further into illegitimacy, losing its appeal to potential recruits. The leaders of ISIS fear this perhaps more than any bombs that they can be killed by.
Quote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:45:46 PMQuote from: DAS FOTZEZERSTÖRER on December 02, 2015, 04:43:59 PMQuote from: Winy on December 02, 2015, 04:41:06 PMThese people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.Yeah, the most devout and brainwashed of the footsoldiers who are mostly illiterate teens and twenty-somethings. Most insurgents don't explode. You can't hold ground when you're dead.Leadership is scared shitless of actual boot-on-ground intervention for any superpower or coalition.Their ideas aren't going to die with them, I hope you know that.Well no shit, we still have neo-nazis.Guess who has no fucking power in the world? The neo-nazis.
I'm gonna rip two paragraphs from my World Politics final essay, because one of the prompts was on whether or not conventional warfare tactics were effective against terrorism. The paper's eight pages long, but these two sections are some of the most relevant: QuoteTraditional methods of war have been demonstrated to be largely inefficient. The very treatment of ISIS and other terrorist groups as legitimate threats also contributes to their ego and motivation to continue acts of violence. Even the declaration of war against terrorism, in and of itself, is counterproductive to the goal of stopping it. As stated in The Nation, and following François Hollande declaring war on the Islamic State, “Actual states should not grant such legitimacy to small bands of violent criminals, and the deployment of the language and techniques of war is the best way to lose a campaign against them.” It is explained that France’s efforts to bomb targets in Syria will only further depict it and other UN members as ignorant and unconcerned for civilians, which will then provide ample opportunities for Jihadists to recruit victims of the conflict in dire need of a purpose and revenge. They will be “Groomed as heroes, as soldiers saving their people” (Juan Cole). Force cannot be used in a manner that will result in the destruction of targets who pose no threat, as this creates more threats in the future. This type of solution will contribute little to the greater purpose of eliminating ISIS and its influence from the world. The destruction of their legitimacy, not only their forces, will see greater contributions to the eventual removal of the Islamic State from world affairs. The governments united against the threat of extremism may eventually favor a type of social rejection of the threat in favor of direct confrontation, which directly contributes to what fuels the fire of militant Jihadists. As quoted in The New York Review of Books, an ISIS member directly stated that the organization wishes to “Expose the weakness of America’s centralized power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and war by proxy until it fights directly.” Some of the responses towards the group’s actions, both militarily and socially, have catered to these wishes (Blog, Scott Atran and Nafees Hamid). Media coverage, for example, only promotes the idea that ISIS is a legitimate state, and one whose threats citizens must be weary of. Terrorism is defined as “The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.” By removing the factors of intimidation and coercion, one can effectively kill the power associated with acts of terror— Ultimately, reactions of the public are what allow for ISIS to thrive. If the group is no longer formally recognized, and are seen as foolish or insignificant, then the supposedly glamorous caliphate that they declare will sunk further and further into illegitimacy, losing its appeal to potential recruits. The leaders of ISIS fear this perhaps more than any bombs that they can be killed by.
So what's the answer? Because what I'm reading translates to "ignore them and they'll stop killing people"
I really just don't understand how you and others in this thread are getting the idea that terrorist groups exist for the sake of chaos, with no tangible goals like establishment of a caliphate, eradication of undesirable ethnic groups, and annexation of territory.
Yes they yearn for legitimization, but that doesn't come from the media showing their victims or presidents declaring war on them, it comes from sovereign nations standing by with their thumbs up their asses, watching as they gain more and more ground. We sat by and watched ISIS grow from an insurgency to a standing army that pays its members, has established governments in conquered areas, and has active supply lines. Isolationism is insane.
ISIS wants glory, and they want recognition; I'll go out on a limb here and draw parallels to what allows for fucked up kids to believe that shooting up a school is how they can remedy their lack of identity and depression. Take away the fear, take away their legitimacy, and the group will die out.