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Septy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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See you Cowgirl,
Someday, somewhere
Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.

>US invades Syria
>IS uses it as propaganda
>IS grows and spreads


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.

>US invades Syria
>IS uses it as propaganda
>IS grows and spreads
You're not giving me an alternative to my two offerings.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.


Never understood why people say this. No terrorist organization, whether an insurgency or a standing army, wants an invasion by a Western coalition.


maverick | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Remember

It's not terrorism if they're white
A nutjob with a gun isn't a terrorist. Terrorism is defined by having political motives.


Septy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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See you Cowgirl,
Someday, somewhere
Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.

>US invades Syria
>IS uses it as propaganda
>IS grows and spreads
You're not giving me an alternative to my two offerings.
Doing nothing is a viable strategy. The U.S is not the worlds police


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Breaking news from police scanner: cop forgets which crown vic is his


maverick | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Doing nothing is a viable strategy. The U.S is not the worlds police
Which is why the rest of the world is shit.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.

>US invades Syria
>IS uses it as propaganda
>IS grows and spreads
You're not giving me an alternative to my two offerings.
Doing nothing is a viable strategy. The U.S is not the worlds police
These radicals will hate us long after we leave. Doing nothing only endangers ourselves.


Septy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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See you Cowgirl,
Someday, somewhere
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.


Never understood why people say this. No terrorist organization, whether an insurgency or a standing army, wants an invasion by a Western coalition.
Their goal is to cause a great disruption to western culture and economy.

If we invade Syria, then they are getting what they want. They are creating a huge disruption to the general public and economy if we invade.


Septy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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See you Cowgirl,
Someday, somewhere
Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.

>US invades Syria
>IS uses it as propaganda
>IS grows and spreads
You're not giving me an alternative to my two offerings.
Doing nothing is a viable strategy. The U.S is not the worlds police
That is isolationism, friend.

If you want to live in the fantasy world of that being true so be it but understand it's not. Whether you like it or not that's the role we have in the world as a superpower and there's no getting around it. That's what being a superpower is all about.
Except it isn't. The U.S is part of NATO, heavily influential among European politics. That's not isolationism at all. Choosing not to go to war is not the same as shutting out the entire world.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.


Never understood why people say this. No terrorist organization, whether an insurgency or a standing army, wants an invasion by a Western coalition.
Their goal is to cause a great disruption to western culture and economy.

If we invade Syria, then they are getting what they want. They are creating a huge disruption to the general public and economy if we invade.
They want the establishment of an autonomous state with a government inferred from a twisted interpretation of the Koran.
The Islamic State's worst nightmare is a Desert Storm 2.


 
Luciana
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Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Yeah because that worked so well in Iraq when the government was just as bad as Saddam's minus the gas.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Yeah because that worked so well in Iraq when the government was just as bad as Saddam's minus the gas.
I burnt a loaf of bread the first time I tried baking.


Winy | Legendary Invincible!
 
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The Islamic State's worst nightmare is a Desert Storm 2.
I'm convinced they fear a loss of glory and appeal more than bombs. These people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly. Death isn't primarily what should be used to get rid of them. Ruin their legitimacy, ignore their actions, and let the appeal to young, frustrated Muslims die. There's not as strong of a point in continuing to drop bombs on an enemy that feeds off of reactions to armed warfare.


 
Luciana
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Not invading the Middle East is not isolationism. We'd be giving them what they want if we invade.


Never understood why people say this. No terrorist organization, whether an insurgency or a standing army, wants an invasion by a Western coalition.
Their goal is to cause a great disruption to western culture and economy.

If we invade Syria, then they are getting what they want. They are creating a huge disruption to the general public and economy if we invade.
They want the establishment of an autonomous state with a government inferred from a twisted interpretation of the Koran.
The Islamic State's worst nightmare is a Desert Storm 2.
They are a mixed bag where they want all of the west to attack them to help bring on some prophet of an end times. Why do you think they're baiting Russia, France, and others so much? It's conflicting that they want a state, but want it so all of the world is in flames too. Need I remind you these people are crazy in the head and worse than Nazi's.


 
Luciana
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Doesn't matter either way, honestly.
It's a coordinated and well supplied attack between three suspects that scanners support and CNN reports as Muslim.

This opens implication of a tie to a middle-east based extremist organization.

If ties are found, this proves that we need to be doing more to combat these factions.
Warmongering doesn't help
And returning to isolationism only hurts everyone.
Who said anything about isolationism
You can ignore the middle east or you can pro-actively cripple terrorist organizations and instill pro-western democracies to aid in diminishing the threat
There are no other viable strategies for placating these people
Yeah because that worked so well in Iraq when the government was just as bad as Saddam's minus the gas.
I burnt a loaf of bread the first time I tried baking.
Cute analogy, and I'll be sure to use it in the future, but I wouldn't compare that to nation building. Especially when the president before Obama didn't even know the difference between Sunni and Shiite's. That was our first mistake going over there.
Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 04:43:44 PM by Luciana


 
gats
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You will find out who you are not a thousand times, before you ever discover who you are. I hope you find peace in yourself and learn to love instead of hate.
Daily reminder that ISIS wants to set up a world wide caliphate, not just a state in Iraq and Syria. 
Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 04:44:43 PM by gatsby


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
These people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.
Yeah, the most devout and brainwashed of the footsoldiers who are mostly illiterate teens and twenty-somethings. Most insurgents don't explode. You can't hold ground when you're dead.

Leadership is scared shitless of actual boot-on-ground intervention for any superpower or coalition.


Winy | Legendary Invincible!
 
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These people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.
Yeah, the most devout and brainwashed of the footsoldiers who are mostly illiterate teens and twenty-somethings. Most insurgents don't explode. You can't hold ground when you're dead.

Leadership is scared shitless of actual boot-on-ground intervention for any superpower or coalition.
Their ideas aren't going to die with them, I hope you know that.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
These people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.
Yeah, the most devout and brainwashed of the footsoldiers who are mostly illiterate teens and twenty-somethings. Most insurgents don't explode. You can't hold ground when you're dead.

Leadership is scared shitless of actual boot-on-ground intervention for any superpower or coalition.
Their ideas aren't going to die with them, I hope you know that.
Well no shit, we still have neo-nazis.
Guess who has no fucking power in the world? The neo-nazis.

ISIL's ideology WILL diminish when the caliphate falls. This is regardless of if it's at the hands of a western army,  Assad's forces, or through some odd chain of events the Kurds.


Winy | Legendary Invincible!
 
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I'm gonna rip two paragraphs from my World Politics final essay, because one of the prompts was on whether or not conventional warfare tactics were effective against terrorism. The paper's eight pages long, but these two sections are some of the most relevant:

Quote
Traditional methods of war have been demonstrated to be largely inefficient. The very treatment of ISIS and other terrorist groups as legitimate threats also contributes to their ego and motivation to continue acts of violence. Even the declaration of war against terrorism, in and of itself, is counterproductive to the goal of stopping it. As stated in The Nation, and following François Hollande declaring war on the Islamic State, “Actual states should not grant such legitimacy to small bands of violent criminals, and the deployment of the language and techniques of war is the best way to lose a campaign against them.” It is explained that France’s efforts to bomb targets in Syria will only further depict it and other UN members as ignorant and unconcerned for civilians, which will then provide ample opportunities for Jihadists to recruit victims of the conflict in dire need of a purpose and revenge. They will be “Groomed as heroes, as soldiers saving their people” (Juan Cole). Force cannot be used in a manner that will result in the destruction of targets who pose no threat, as this creates more threats in the future. This type of solution will contribute little to the greater purpose of eliminating ISIS and its influence from the world.

The destruction of their legitimacy, not only their forces, will see greater contributions to the eventual removal of the Islamic State from world affairs. The governments united against the threat of extremism may eventually favor a type of social rejection of the threat in favor of direct confrontation, which directly contributes to what fuels the fire of militant Jihadists. As quoted in The New York Review of Books, an ISIS member directly stated that the organization wishes to “Expose the weakness of America’s centralized power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and war by proxy until it fights directly.” Some of the responses towards the group’s actions, both militarily and socially, have catered to these wishes (Blog, Scott Atran and Nafees Hamid). Media coverage, for example, only promotes the idea that ISIS is a legitimate state, and one whose threats citizens must be weary of. Terrorism is defined as “The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.” By removing the factors of intimidation and coercion, one can effectively kill the power associated with acts of terror— Ultimately, reactions of the public are what allow for ISIS to thrive. If the group is no longer formally recognized, and are seen as foolish or insignificant, then the supposedly glamorous caliphate that they declare will sunk further and further into illegitimacy, losing its appeal to potential recruits. The leaders of ISIS fear this perhaps more than any bombs that they can be killed by.
Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 04:52:46 PM by Winy


Winy | Legendary Invincible!
 
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These people are fucking insane; they blow themselves up constantly.
Yeah, the most devout and brainwashed of the footsoldiers who are mostly illiterate teens and twenty-somethings. Most insurgents don't explode. You can't hold ground when you're dead.

Leadership is scared shitless of actual boot-on-ground intervention for any superpower or coalition.
Their ideas aren't going to die with them, I hope you know that.
Well no shit, we still have neo-nazis.
Guess who has no fucking power in the world? The neo-nazis.
Because Neo-Nazi's didn't have sympathizers to any remotely significant degree.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
I'm gonna rip two paragraphs from my World Politics final essay, because one of the prompts was on whether or not conventional warfare tactics were effective against terrorism. The paper's eight pages long, but these two sections are some of the most relevant:

Quote
Traditional methods of war have been demonstrated to be largely inefficient. The very treatment of ISIS and other terrorist groups as legitimate threats also contributes to their ego and motivation to continue acts of violence. Even the declaration of war against terrorism, in and of itself, is counterproductive to the goal of stopping it. As stated in The Nation, and following François Hollande declaring war on the Islamic State, “Actual states should not grant such legitimacy to small bands of violent criminals, and the deployment of the language and techniques of war is the best way to lose a campaign against them.” It is explained that France’s efforts to bomb targets in Syria will only further depict it and other UN members as ignorant and unconcerned for civilians, which will then provide ample opportunities for Jihadists to recruit victims of the conflict in dire need of a purpose and revenge. They will be “Groomed as heroes, as soldiers saving their people” (Juan Cole). Force cannot be used in a manner that will result in the destruction of targets who pose no threat, as this creates more threats in the future. This type of solution will contribute little to the greater purpose of eliminating ISIS and its influence from the world.

The destruction of their legitimacy, not only their forces, will see greater contributions to the eventual removal of the Islamic State from world affairs. The governments united against the threat of extremism may eventually favor a type of social rejection of the threat in favor of direct confrontation, which directly contributes to what fuels the fire of militant Jihadists. As quoted in The New York Review of Books, an ISIS member directly stated that the organization wishes to “Expose the weakness of America’s centralized power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and war by proxy until it fights directly.” Some of the responses towards the group’s actions, both militarily and socially, have catered to these wishes (Blog, Scott Atran and Nafees Hamid). Media coverage, for example, only promotes the idea that ISIS is a legitimate state, and one whose threats citizens must be weary of. Terrorism is defined as “The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.” By removing the factors of intimidation and coercion, one can effectively kill the power associated with acts of terror— Ultimately, reactions of the public are what allow for ISIS to thrive. If the group is no longer formally recognized, and are seen as foolish or insignificant, then the supposedly glamorous caliphate that they declare will sunk further and further into illegitimacy, losing its appeal to potential recruits. The leaders of ISIS fear this perhaps more than any bombs that they can be killed by.
So what's the answer? Because what I'm reading translates to "ignore them and they'll stop killing people"


 
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Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I'm gonna rip two paragraphs from my World Politics final essay, because one of the prompts was on whether or not conventional warfare tactics were effective against terrorism. The paper's eight pages long, but these two sections are some of the most relevant:

Quote
Traditional methods of war have been demonstrated to be largely inefficient. The very treatment of ISIS and other terrorist groups as legitimate threats also contributes to their ego and motivation to continue acts of violence. Even the declaration of war against terrorism, in and of itself, is counterproductive to the goal of stopping it. As stated in The Nation, and following François Hollande declaring war on the Islamic State, “Actual states should not grant such legitimacy to small bands of violent criminals, and the deployment of the language and techniques of war is the best way to lose a campaign against them.” It is explained that France’s efforts to bomb targets in Syria will only further depict it and other UN members as ignorant and unconcerned for civilians, which will then provide ample opportunities for Jihadists to recruit victims of the conflict in dire need of a purpose and revenge. They will be “Groomed as heroes, as soldiers saving their people” (Juan Cole). Force cannot be used in a manner that will result in the destruction of targets who pose no threat, as this creates more threats in the future. This type of solution will contribute little to the greater purpose of eliminating ISIS and its influence from the world.

The destruction of their legitimacy, not only their forces, will see greater contributions to the eventual removal of the Islamic State from world affairs. The governments united against the threat of extremism may eventually favor a type of social rejection of the threat in favor of direct confrontation, which directly contributes to what fuels the fire of militant Jihadists. As quoted in The New York Review of Books, an ISIS member directly stated that the organization wishes to “Expose the weakness of America’s centralized power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and war by proxy until it fights directly.” Some of the responses towards the group’s actions, both militarily and socially, have catered to these wishes (Blog, Scott Atran and Nafees Hamid). Media coverage, for example, only promotes the idea that ISIS is a legitimate state, and one whose threats citizens must be weary of. Terrorism is defined as “The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.” By removing the factors of intimidation and coercion, one can effectively kill the power associated with acts of terror— Ultimately, reactions of the public are what allow for ISIS to thrive. If the group is no longer formally recognized, and are seen as foolish or insignificant, then the supposedly glamorous caliphate that they declare will sunk further and further into illegitimacy, losing its appeal to potential recruits. The leaders of ISIS fear this perhaps more than any bombs that they can be killed by.

I really just don't understand how you and others in this thread are getting the idea that terrorist groups exist for the sake of chaos, with no tangible goals like establishment of a caliphate, eradication of undesirable ethnic groups, and annexation of territory. Yes they yearn for legitimization, but that doesn't come from the media showing their victims or presidents declaring war on them, it comes from sovereign nations standing by with their thumbs up their asses, watching as they gain more and more ground. We sat by and watched ISIS grow from an insurgency to a standing army that pays its members, has established governments in conquered areas, and has active supply lines. Isolationism is insane.


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So what's the answer? Because what I'm reading translates to "ignore them and they'll stop killing people"
That really isn't what's implied at all, and there's no way you'd really be able to pull any sort of greater solution out of the paper, considering you read one-tenth of it. The essay is a fairly equal split between why conventional tactics are inefficient, and then what unconventional, non-combat methods can be used to combat terrorism. ISIS wants glory, and they want recognition; I'll go out on a limb here and draw parallels to what allows for fucked up kids to believe that shooting up a school is how they can remedy their lack of identity and depression. Take away the fear, take away their legitimacy, and the group will die out. Not just through "Ignoring them," but that's quite a large part of it on the public's hands.


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I can't use an image in my signature? That blows, you all blow.
It's okay folks. I'm safe. Police won't let me Operate down there. I even offered to wear a white cowboy hat to let them know I'm a good guy.

>TFW a Terrorist won't be catching a 45-70 to the chest.


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I really just don't understand how you and others in this thread are getting the idea that terrorist groups exist for the sake of chaos, with no tangible goals like establishment of a caliphate, eradication of undesirable ethnic groups, and annexation of territory.
Probably because none of us are saying that.

Quote
Yes they yearn for legitimization, but that doesn't come from the media showing their victims or presidents declaring war on them, it comes from sovereign nations standing by with their thumbs up their asses, watching as they gain more and more ground. We sat by and watched ISIS grow from an insurgency to a standing army that pays its members, has established governments in conquered areas, and has active supply lines. Isolationism is insane.
Once again; nobody said anything about isolationism.


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ISIS wants glory, and they want recognition; I'll go out on a limb here and draw parallels to what allows for fucked up kids to believe that shooting up a school is how they can remedy their lack of identity and depression. Take away the fear, take away their legitimacy, and the group will die out.

This is a monumentally wrong understanding of the motivations of ISIS.