A question for bible-reading religious people

Dustin · December 04, 2014, 10:41:40 PM

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PSU · December 04, 2014, 11:07:54 PM

Of course I would.

This is implying I'm actually talking to God directly...

R o c k e t · December 04, 2014, 11:14:23 PM

Quote from: Dustbutt on December 04, 2014, 10:41:40 PM

If you are asked by god to do something unethical, say kill a child, would you do it?

You must choose either ethics or faith in this scenario, you cannot say that god would never tell someone to do it, because he actually has made someone make that decision in the bible (there's a nice quick summary of the story
So would you obey god and kill the child, or would you not?

The story of Isaac and Abraham, ah yes. Nobody was killed though, that's the good news.
Why did God ask Abraham to offer his son Isaac as a sacrifice? To test his faith.

Did God actually want Abraham to kill his son? No. Because you see what happens later in the story: an Angel stops Abraham from killing Isaac, and instead finds a ram stuck in a bush. That is offered in Isaac's place.

So no, I wouldn't kill anybody. And God wouldn't ask us to do that and follow through with it.
Did God change His mind? Nope. From our point of view He did, but that's because we didn't see the whole plan. God was simply testing Abraham's faithfulness, since Abraham said he would follow God.

Turkey · December 04, 2014, 11:17:09 PM

Abraham's son wasn't a child, but the question is still valid. I'd question whether I'm actually being instructed by God, because such a request is inconsistent with His character in Christianity (or any Abrahamic religion).

But a no-shit, irrefutable presence of God telling me to kill a little kid? I'd still say no, I imagine.

g💚jira · December 04, 2014, 11:29:44 PM

No, on the grounds for disagreement, well, written by Him.

Dustin · December 04, 2014, 11:34:22 PM

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Kinder Graham · December 04, 2014, 11:35:52 PM

We have free will, so he can't order us to do something. If you're hearing a voice to commit a crime, you're easier insane or being influenced by the devil

g💚jira · December 04, 2014, 11:42:36 PM

Quote from: Dustbutt on December 04, 2014, 11:34:22 PM

Quote from: GodspeedSnowjira! on December 04, 2014, 11:29:44 PM
No, on the grounds for disagreement, well, written by Him.
You would value the word of the bible over the direct word of god?

A) Direct word is a different story. I'd still say no, and again on the same grounds, but still.

B) Not necessarily. I'd value my moral judgement and then bring up the word of the text to support myself. I'd never say yes to killing a kid out of the blue like that. I'm just saying that if I was faced with the scenario I'd use the text as a point of contention.

Korra · December 04, 2014, 11:46:02 PM

I was given freedom to ask and to deny the things I saw to be wrong, even to an omnipotent.

Mr. Psychologist · December 05, 2014, 08:28:42 AM

Quote from: Kinder on December 04, 2014, 11:35:52 PM

If you're hearing a voice to commit a crime, you're easier insane or being influenced by the devil

Since this is a thread regarding hearing voices from god telling you to kill your own child, I'll overlook it. But for god's sake, please never mistake those two things when it comes to dealing with someone who is 'insane'.

Mr. Psychologist · December 05, 2014, 08:31:15 AM

I'm not really religious mind you, but even if I was still a Christian I'd say 'No, I'm converting to a new religion now' <_<

I know that the New Testament God wouldn't ask such a thing, but if it was the OT guy I wouldn't put it past him. The answer remains the same though, blind faith is dangerous and if you would willingly kill your child because a higher power orders it then you don't deserve to have that child in the first place.

DAS B00T x2 · December 05, 2014, 08:52:00 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 04, 2014, 11:14:23 PM

But what I really don't understand about the story is why a goat is sacrificed to God in the end. What is the point of that when the sacrifice was just a test of faith and not to be performed? And why would God want a goat sacrificed in his name anyway?

RomanGladiator · December 05, 2014, 11:05:25 AM

God wants you to see Exodus Gods and Kings.

R o c k e t · December 05, 2014, 01:14:24 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 05, 2014, 08:52:00 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 04, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
But what I really don't understand about the story is why a goat is sacrificed to God in the end. What is the point of that when the sacrifice was just a test of faith and not to be performed? And why would God want a goat sacrificed in his name anyway?

In the Old Testament, Israel would offer a "sin offering" to God of their best goat, or lamb. That would cover them for the year.
Jesus is called the "Lamb of God" because He took all sin upon Himself.

More Than Mortal · December 05, 2014, 01:17:50 PM

ITT: question dodging.

This really is just a linguistic reformation of divine command theory.

Would you obey God if he ordered you to do something patently unethical?

BaconShelf · December 05, 2014, 01:27:46 PM

It's the same guy who sent bears to kill kids for mocking an old man, he probably means it.

Also, if I was 100% certain, I would consider it, at least.

Word Wizard · December 05, 2014, 01:32:42 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 05, 2014, 01:14:24 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 05, 2014, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 04, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
But what I really don't understand about the story is why a goat is sacrificed to God in the end. What is the point of that when the sacrifice was just a test of faith and not to be performed? And why would God want a goat sacrificed in his name anyway?
In the Old Testament, Israel would offer a "sin offering" to God of their best goat, or lamb. That would cover them for the year.
Jesus is called the "Lamb of God" because He took all sin upon Himself.

It's where the term scapegoating came from, and it's immoral.

g💚jira · December 05, 2014, 01:34:06 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 05, 2014, 01:17:50 PM

ITT: question dodging.

This really is just a linguistic reformation of divine command theory.

Would you obey God if he ordered you to do something patently unethical?

Well I've already said that I wouldn't do something like that and that I'd argue my stance based on the text, but I'm intrigued to figure out what you'd say, Meta. The question was directed at "bible-readers" but by now I think that target flew out the window a while back

Kinder Graham · December 05, 2014, 01:51:46 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 05, 2014, 08:28:42 AM

Quote from: Kinder on December 04, 2014, 11:35:52 PM
If you're hearing a voice to commit a crime, you're easier insane or being influenced by the devil
Since this is a thread regarding hearing voices from god telling you to kill your own child, I'll overlook it. But for god's sake, please never mistake those two things when it comes to dealing with someone who is 'insane'.

Well I used the term either

Either a person is insane or a person is simply hearing the voices of evil