"You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."

Pendulate · May 12, 2015, 09:12:44 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 12, 2015, 08:55:41 PM

Because of a shitty diet.

That is totally arbitrary and irrelevant. If my diet is perfectly healthy, and a diet with animal products is perfectly healthy, there is no distinction worth making. Except, of course, for the fact that the former does not require animals to be harmed and exploited.

If you're basing your argument on meaningless rhetoric like that, your argument is a bad one.

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The point is if you need B12 supplements, that means s your diet is terrible. Which I illustrated by using my dog's diet of white rice and chicken as an example of a diet which does not give you all the vitamins you need.

And as I stressed, there is a big difference between the two because the use of supplements indicates very different things. You are trying to say that B12 in a vegan diet reflects poor nutrition in other areas. But I could just as easily say that meat consumption reflects poor nutrition in other areas -- failure to get the protein you need from plants, or to get B12 from microorganisms on plants. See how arbitrary this is?

The B12 injection for your dog indicated poor diet because you thought it was getting all it needed from other sources. You want it to get its B12 from other sources, so the need for an injection is indicative of shortcomings in the diet you want to feed it. You view supplements as a last resort, just as I could view meat as a last resort for plant foods.

If you are taking B12 as an integral part of your diet, then this is not an issue.

By the way, dog food is commonly fortified with vitamins. How does this fit into your position?

Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:13:30 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 12, 2015, 09:12:43 PM

Except the plant isn't getting a boner.

It's flinching after being prodded.

i can name a fuckton of inanimate objects that flinch after being prodded, for fuck's sake

that's kinda what happens when you prod at things

Jocephalopod · May 12, 2015, 09:15:00 PM

to be serious here, the only ethical argument I can conjure up would be that a plant has no more a desire to be cooked and eaten than any animal.

every living thing spends it's whole life trying to stay alive, and plants clearly react when in harm to fend off death.

sentient or not, the act of destroying a living thing for your own gain is immoral... which would lead to a diet of mainly fruits and any other things plants need animals to eat besides themselves.

now before you respond that plants have no fucking idea whats going on and thus aren't suffering i'd like to let you know that I completely agree.. frankly this thread has progressed into a pretty fucking retarded argument but that's besides the point.. your probably a bit more interested in my explanation as to why i'm not vegan myself.

rC · May 12, 2015, 09:15:29 PM

Quote from: Voro 'Cinotai on May 12, 2015, 10:28:07 AM

Well when my choice to eat something is this...

or this

I think I know what I'm going to to be getting.

those rice and peas look fucking delicious

Deleted · May 12, 2015, 09:18:17 PM

If we we're to ever as an entire species to stop eating meat we would have to euthenise metric Fuck-tons of cows and other farm animals to stop some ridiculous environmental disasters including overabundance of CO2 and overpopulation and overgrazing or a combination of all. In the end everything dies and this whole "morality of killing sentient life" thing comes back and sucker punches you in the face.

Or better yet, in triggers climate change. Have fun being a vegan in the next Ice Age or when the heat ruins our ability to produce enough crops for everyone.

We would also need to massively increase the amount of crops that we produce. In fact we would have to bring new crops to different places that they were not ....remember the last time we over-saturated the land with crops they couldn't sustain?

it want fun for the Cows either

Pendulate · May 12, 2015, 09:18:32 PM

Unless challengerX is claiming that the cells and bacteria in our body, which respond to stimuli, are conscious and feel pain (how many consciousnesses would my body have, then?) this is an absurd non-sequitur and is jumping to bigger conclusions than the scientists who actually conduct this research.

challengerX · May 12, 2015, 09:21:03 PM

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Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:21:21 PM

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 09:18:17 PM

If we we're to ever as an entire species to stop eating meat we would have to euthenise metric Fuck-tons of cows and other farm animals to stop some ridiculous environmental disasters including overabundance of CO2 and overpopulation and overgrazing or a combination of all. In the end everything dies and this whole "morality of killing sentient life" thing comes back and sucker punches you in the face.

Or better yet, in triggers climate change. Have fun being a vegan in the next Ice Age or when the heat ruins our ability to produce enough crops for everyone.

We would also need to massively increase the amount of crops that we produce. In fact we would have to bring new crops to different places that they were not ....remember the last time we over-saturated the land with crops they couldn't sustain?

it want fun for the Cows either

can you say "slippery slope"

provide hard evidence that all of this stuff would DEFINITELY happen if we stopped eating animals

challengerX · May 12, 2015, 09:22:11 PM

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Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:22:37 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 12, 2015, 09:21:03 PM

I'm actually baffled at how ignorant and stubborn you are.

Yeah, you're trolling.

Mordo · May 12, 2015, 09:24:27 PM

I would chime in my opinion but I don't think I'm in the mood for an autistic vegan sperg out.

All I'm gonna say is I like eating meat both because I like it, and it pisses of sanctimonious vegans with sticks up their arses, yourself being a prime example.

challengerX · May 12, 2015, 09:24:46 PM

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i am karjala takaisin · May 12, 2015, 09:25:48 PM

notice how pendulate only has 67 posts, and all of them are from this thread and the thread about fur

Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:26:31 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:24:27 PM

I would chime in my opinion but I don't think I'm in the mood for an autistic vegan sperg out.

All I'm gonna say is I like eating meat both because I like it, and it pisses of sanctimonious vegans with sticks up their arses, yourself being a prime example.

Except I've expressed twice in this thread that eating meat isn't really the problem. If you're eating meat, it means you're not wasting it. The only way you could ever actually piss a vegan off is if you wasted the food. That would make you an evil cunt.

Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:28:20 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 12, 2015, 09:24:46 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 09:22:37 PM
Quote from: challengerX on May 12, 2015, 09:21:03 PM
I'm actually baffled at how ignorant and stubborn you are.
Yeah, you're trolling.
Yeah, you got me.

Thanks.

Mordo · May 12, 2015, 09:29:57 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 09:26:31 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:24:27 PM
I would chime in my opinion but I don't think I'm in the mood for an autistic vegan sperg out.

All I'm gonna say is I like eating meat both because I like it, and it pisses of sanctimonious vegans with sticks up their arses, yourself being a prime example.
Except I've expressed twice in this thread that eating meat isn't really the problem. If you're eating meat, it means you're not wasting it. The only way you could ever actually piss a vegan off is if you wasted the food. That would make you an evil cunt.

What if I recycled it in a specialized food receptacle like I did with my double meat feast extra pepperoni pizza last night?

Pendulate · May 12, 2015, 09:30:17 PM

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 09:18:17 PM

If we we're to ever as an entire species to stop eating meat we would have to euthenise metric Fuck-tons of cows and other farm animals to stop some ridiculous environmental disasters including overabundance of CO2

How do you figure that? Animal farming is one o the most environmentally destructive industries on the planet, releasing the same amount of greenhouse gas emissions as every car, truck, train, plane and ship combined. This is not even accounting for the methane produced by livestock which is over 20 times more damaging to the environment and over a period of years this increases dramatically.

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and overpopulation and overgrazing or a combination of all.

Except we do not pluck cows out of the wild and put them in farms; we breed them, by the billions per year, for our pleasure.

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In the end everything dies and this whole "morality of killing sentient life" thing comes back and sucker punches you in the face.

So nothing is immoral because everything dies eventually? Would morality be more valid if we all lived forever?

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Or better yet, in triggers climate change. Have fun being a vegan in the next Ice Age or when the heat ruins our ability to produce enough crops for everyone.

We need those crops to feed the animals we eat in the first place. And we put far more crops into animals than what we get out of their meat.

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We would also need to massively increase the amount of crops that we produce. In fact we would have to bring new crops to different places that they were not ....remember the last time we over-saturated the land with crops they couldn't sustain?

Over 60% of the world's grain crops and 70% of soy are fed to livestock. We have more than enough to sustain ourselves and those in developing countries (assuming an intercontinental market was open) but we instead choose to indulge in meat, a first world luxury of the highest order.

Would very much like to get a response to this.

Deleted · May 12, 2015, 09:31:07 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 09:21:21 PM

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 09:18:17 PM
If we we're to ever as an entire species to stop eating meat we would have to euthenise metric Fuck-tons of cows and other farm animals to stop some ridiculous environmental disasters including overabundance of CO2 and overpopulation and overgrazing or a combination of all. In the end everything dies and this whole "morality of killing sentient life" thing comes back and sucker punches you in the face.

Or better yet, in triggers climate change. Have fun being a vegan in the next Ice Age or when the heat ruins our ability to produce enough crops for everyone.

We would also need to massively increase the amount of crops that we produce. In fact we would have to bring new crops to different places that they were not ....remember the last time we over-saturated the land with crops they couldn't sustain?

it want fun for the Cows either
can you say "slippery slope"

provide hard evidence that all of this stuff would DEFINITELY happen if we stopped eating animals

I am actualy trying. I know for a fact there is major evidence that proves releasing all of our animals would absoluty Shrek the environment.
One of them had to do with some occurrence with a fuck ton of horses being released and fucking shit up in general.

I will definitely get back to you on this. just give me a bit of time

cuneif · May 12, 2015, 09:31:34 PM

Meat is my homie. No thanks.

Pendulate · May 12, 2015, 09:31:51 PM

Quote from: —ber on May 12, 2015, 09:25:48 PM

notice how pendulate only has 67 posts, and all of them are from this thread and the thread about fur

It's nice when a topic worthy of discussion shows up.

Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:32:25 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:29:57 PM

What if I recycled it in a specialized food receptacle like I did with my double meat feast extra pepperoni pizza last night?

If you're recycling it, then it's going to be reused in some way. So hopefully it does.

Pendulate · May 12, 2015, 09:33:18 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:24:27 PM

I would chime in my opinion but I don't think I'm in the mood for an autistic vegan sperg out.

All I'm gonna say is I like eating meat both because I like it, and it pisses of sanctimonious vegans with sticks up their arses, yourself being a prime example.

Perhaps read through the thread and get a decent understanding of the subject before assuming there's nothing valuable to discuss?

Mordo · May 12, 2015, 09:33:19 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 09:32:25 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:29:57 PM
What if I recycled it in a specialized food receptacle like I did with my double meat feast extra pepperoni pizza last night?
If you're recycling it, then it's going to be reused in some way. So hopefully it does.

jk i put that shit straight in the garbage just like where your opinions belong

Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:34:07 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:33:19 PM

jk i put that shit straight in the garbage just like where your opinions belong

Angry meat-eating autist.

Mordo · May 12, 2015, 09:35:40 PM

Quote from: Pendulate on May 12, 2015, 09:33:18 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:24:27 PM
I would chime in my opinion but I don't think I'm in the mood for an autistic vegan sperg out.

All I'm gonna say is I like eating meat both because I like it, and it pisses of sanctimonious vegans with sticks up their arses, yourself being a prime example.
Perhaps read through the thread and get a decent understanding of the subject before assuming there's nothing valuable to discuss?

So you're telling me not to assume despite the fact that you just assumed I hadn't read the thread?

Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:37:15 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:35:40 PM

So you're telling me not to assume despite the fact that you just assumed I hadn't read the thread?

You obviously didn't. And if you did, you didn't comprehend any of it.

Word Wizard · May 12, 2015, 09:37:38 PM

I don't think I could ever give up pepperoni pizza or ice cream.

Verbatim · May 12, 2015, 09:38:06 PM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on May 12, 2015, 09:37:38 PM

I don't think I could ever give up pepperoni pizza or ice cream.

Yeah, you could. I thought the same thing before I became a vegan. Only, I never liked pizza.

rC · May 12, 2015, 09:38:33 PM

itt: verbatim and pendulate blow everyone the fuck out

Mordo · May 12, 2015, 09:39:49 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 09:37:15 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 12, 2015, 09:35:40 PM
So you're telling me not to assume despite the fact that you just assumed I hadn't read the thread?
You obviously didn't. And if you did, you didn't comprehend any of it.

Says who?