"We can't have infinite growth on a finite planet"

More Than Mortal · June 06, 2015, 05:07:41 PM

Yes we can you eco-fucks. There's no physical upper-limit to our ability to technologically exploit resources, and nor does economic growth use some physical measure like tonnage or volume; it measures value.

Jesus Christ, the ignorance is astounding.

Verbatim · June 06, 2015, 05:10:22 PM

let's not assume we're using our finite planet as efficiently (and economically) as possible though

'cause i don't think we are

More Than Mortal · June 06, 2015, 05:12:41 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 06, 2015, 05:10:22 PM

let's not assume we're using our finite planet as efficiently (and economically) as possible though

'cause i don't think we are

We aren't, but that's not relevant. I'm talking about the premise that it's impossible to have infinite growth with finite resources.

Verbatim · June 06, 2015, 05:14:57 PM

yeah i know, i just felt like that may have been an ulterior implication

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 05:37:58 PM

We've the ability to completely exhaust resources however. And the ability to overpopulate.

In order to have infinite growth while sticking to one planet? Extreme refinement. Total control over every aspect of what people do. You'd have to be talking an almost totilatarian order that regulated and monitored everything across the planet.

The more time goes on, the more we use. Sturdier forms of metal have already been phased out for the sake of conserving their dwindling numbers while cheaper, easier to manufacture ones have taken their place. You can't recycle an alloy. Once metals are fused that's it.

You can't replant the rainforest after it's gone. You can't even plant a rainforest and have it survive successfully.

Not saying it's impossible. We've got an entire asteroid belt in our solar system to work with.

But, taking into account human nature?

It's not impossible. But likely, improbable.

Verbatim · June 06, 2015, 05:42:36 PM

we're fucking doomed

More Than Mortal · June 06, 2015, 05:43:22 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 06, 2015, 05:42:36 PM

we're fucking doomed

And I bet that gets you off.

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 05:45:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 06, 2015, 05:42:36 PM

we're fucking doomed

Look on the bright side. You'll likely be dead before it happens.

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 05:48:51 PM

Hokay. Taking auditions for horsemen of the apocalypse here.

Verb's got little faith in people
I've got little faith in people
I'm pretty sure meta has little faith in people too

4 horsemen right? Next fucker that comes in here is number 4.

More Than Mortal · June 06, 2015, 05:51:15 PM

I get Horseman of Death.

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 05:53:27 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 06, 2015, 05:51:15 PM

I get Horseman of Death.

Boo. Figured Verb would go for it since he's all for everybody dying anyway.

You're a smoker.

You'd be better as pestilance. Could blow minty flavored smoke and bugs all over people from those yellow british teeth of yours.

Suppose I could call famine.

Verbatim · June 06, 2015, 05:54:49 PM

i don't want people to die, i just don't want more people to live

i'll be the horseman of hate

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 05:55:56 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 06, 2015, 05:54:49 PM

i don't want people to die, i just don't want more people to live

i'll be the horseman of hate

Oh so you like killing them until they're dead then?

"People die when they are killed."

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 05:57:27 PM

Meta. Question. Who made that statement?

"We can't have infinite growth on a finite planet"

Verbatim · June 06, 2015, 05:58:12 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on June 06, 2015, 05:57:27 PM

Meta. Question. Who made that statement?

"We can't have infinite growth on a finite planet"

it's a common leftist sentiment

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 05:59:26 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 06, 2015, 05:58:12 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on June 06, 2015, 05:57:27 PM
Meta. Question. Who made that statement?

"We can't have infinite growth on a finite planet"
it's a common liberal sentiment

Fuck. Would have been great if somebody explicitely stated it. Could easily reply with,

"Your mother contradicts that statement."

Sandtrap · June 06, 2015, 06:00:27 PM

Quote from: Nuka on June 06, 2015, 05:59:12 PM

I like this thread.

4th commentor! We've got our four horsemen of the apocalypse.

Sorry for the derail, Meta.

Super Irish · June 06, 2015, 06:27:34 PM

Well technically speaking, the title is right.

But of course we can always get more efficient, I mean look at computer technology, first weighed several tonnes and needed a big room that calculated a few times a minute, and now we can have computers on a wrist that are better, as well as ones the size of houses that can predict the Earth's weather...you know how hard that is?

But resources wise, this planet is finite in that, even more so considering that at current mining technology we can only acquire a 1/3 of the Earth's valuable resources (Metals, Fuels, etc), but it's not all doom and gloom. Technology is advancing rapidly as already described, and efficiency will always improve. Plus, even a third of Earth's resources will last us a LONG time, far longer than several generations considering we only started industrially ~200 years ago.

So while the hippies may scream that we're going to run out of resources to sustain a comfortable life*, that's not going to happen for ages, and they seem to think Earth is totally isolated in a closed system... we have other planets with resources nearby if it ever got truly in a dire situation, y'know...

*For at least a considerable size of population on Earth

That is, unless you're talking about the economy, in which case I've not a fucking clue and all of the above is totally irrelevant.

big sponge · June 07, 2015, 02:03:15 AM

Quote from: Sandtrap on June 06, 2015, 05:55:56 PM

"People die when they are killed."

Mad Max · June 07, 2015, 04:18:25 AM

How the shit can you have infinite something when its source is finite? I can't have an infinite amount of paper with a finite number of trees.

Pendulate · June 07, 2015, 05:34:07 AM

Quote from: Nuka on June 07, 2015, 04:47:43 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on June 07, 2015, 04:18:25 AM
How the shit can you have infinite something when its source is finite? I can't have an infinite amount of paper with a finite number of trees.
Renewable resources.
Reusing/repurposing resources.

Trees can be replanted. Water evaporates and rains back down, can be filtered, processed, etc. You know, stuff like that.

We have many non-renewable resources too, such as oil, coal, and helium.

More Than Mortal · June 07, 2015, 06:22:29 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on June 07, 2015, 04:18:25 AM

I can't have an infinite amount of paper with a finite number of trees.

The amount of paper you're creating is a measure of quantity, not value.

The Lord Slide Rule · June 07, 2015, 04:49:57 PM

(cough)thermodynamics (cough)

Edit: oh, value, this is different I spose