There are about 13 million Jews in the world. 5.9 million live in the Zionist state. Of those, the ultra-Orthodox make up about 10%. The ultra-Orthodox are opposed to Zionism and uniformly refuse to serve in the army. Regarding rest it is hard to know. People define themselves as "orthodox" "ultra-orthodox" and "traditional" according to mode of dress and lifestyle, schools attended, neighborhoods and so on. (And the Orthodox segment of the population is growing rapidly due to high birth rates and outreach movements.) There are many more Jews who may not live such an Orthodox lifestyle, yet are opposed to the state and sympathize with the anti-Zionist cause.Furthermore, even among secular, non-observant Jews, there is a large and growing number who are opposed to the crimes of Zionism. There is a movement of secular youth who refuse to serve in the army for this reason. There are peace activists like Gush Shalom and B'tzelem and Peace Now. Many of the followers of these movements are young people who grew up learning the true history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as publicized by the new historians and formed their opinions accordingly. Therefore it is very hard to arrive at an exact figure of how many Jews in the Holy Land oppose Zionism. If we assume, based on draft refusal statistics, that this segment of the secular population is about 10%, we have a total of about 19% of Jewish Israelis opposed to Zionism, or 1.12 million. The other 4.78 million would be Zionists.In America there are about 5 million Jews, and a recent study found only half of American Jews under the age of 35 are comfortable with the idea of a Jewish state. Among older Jews the percentage of Zionists is somewhat higher. Among the opponents of Zionism are the ultra-Orthodox Jews of America, who number close to 15%. If we assume that 60% of the total number are Zionists, that is 3 million. If trends in the rest of the world's Jewish communities are similar to those of America, that would make a total of 4.26 million Zionists in the world outside of the state of Israel. All togther that is about 9 million Zionists, or 69% of the world's Jewish population.A Jew is always a Jew no matter what he does, but we can still say that the Zionists are Jews not acting in accordance with Judaism.
But there is an inherent moral high ground in not being a Jihadi.
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 04, 2015, 09:27:38 AMBut there is an inherent moral high ground in not being a Jihadi. Except Palestine nor Hamas are Jihadi.
Well first of all I never claimed all Palestinians were Nazis, I claimed Hamas effectively were. 32pc of Palestinians supported the murder of a Jewish family, including children.83pc of Palestinians approve of some or most groups which attack America.89pc of Palestinians support Hamas.51pc of Palestinians supported Osama bin Laden.68pc of Palestinians say suicide bombings against civilians in the defence of Islam is acceptable.All of this--not even factoring in the fact that Hamas fires rockets from besides schools and hospitals, use human shields, air anti-Semitic cartoons and used the fabrication known as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion--is enough to flatly condemn Hamas and the majority of Palestinians supporting them, whatever the faults of Israel. Especially considering Israel extends suffrage to it's native Palestinians, allows them to be elected to the Knesset and has a Palestinian on its supreme court.
Israel extends suffrage to it's native Palestinians
The "Oh Hamas stores rockets" myth is BS.
Quote from: -Foxy- on January 04, 2015, 10:24:11 AMSo your solution to evidence is to just say "Yeah, I don't trust it" and then make up bullshit for your own ends?It's no secret Hamas fires rockets from such locations. Nor that they use human shields, air anti-Semitic cartoons or have previously supported and distributed explicitly genocidal texts--claims which you're yet to address. I also know of no instance in which a significant amount of Palestinians were forced out of their homes since 1948.
Well you've proven to be very ignorant of the situation so this doesn't surprise me.
And why is anti-semitic cartoons any worse than pro-zionist cartoons that promote the slaughter in Gaza?
Quote from: -Foxy- on January 04, 2015, 10:33:56 AMWell you've proven to be very ignorant of the situation so this doesn't surprise me.Are you fucking serious right now? I present you with several pieces of evidence and proved one of your claims to be explicitly incorrect and all you can think to do is call me ignorant? QuoteAnd why is anti-semitic cartoons any worse than pro-zionist cartoons that promote the slaughter in Gaza?Well first and foremost it'd be worse within the context of Hamas's toxic ideology, but you're going to have to actually prove to me that these Zionist cartoons aired to children actually exist. . .
Well yeah I am calling you ignorant, you've posted nothing but right-wing rhetoric
The only reason you support Israel is because Palestine has a muslim population.
There's really no debating with zionists.
You can't say Israel has the moral high ground when they cheer at Palestinians being slaughtered.
And you've also never been to the region so obviously you're looking at Israel through rose tinted glasses.
Quote from: -Foxy- on January 04, 2015, 10:42:58 AM At the very least would you accept that both sides are shitty in different ways?
Everyone knows that obi wan has the high ground.
Quote from: Bacon's Shelf on January 04, 2015, 11:12:36 AMEveryone knows that obi wan has the high ground.YOU ARE NEW EMPIRE?
YouTubeITT: Kiyo getting smokedB T F OTFO
Quote from: Madman Mordo on January 04, 2015, 11:47:35 AMQuote from: Bacon's Shelf on January 04, 2015, 11:12:36 AMEveryone knows that obi wan has the high ground.YOU ARE NEW EMPIRE?Palestinians be like
Quote from: Madman Mordo on January 04, 2015, 11:45:20 AMYouTubeITT: Kiyo getting smokedB T F OTFOI don't see how.
Quote from: -Foxy- on January 04, 2015, 11:54:37 AMQuote from: Madman Mordo on January 04, 2015, 11:45:20 AMYouTubeITT: Kiyo getting smokedB T F OTFOI don't see how.>gets called out for bullshit sources>is subsequently shot the fuck down with actual reputable sources>damage controls the fuck out and pulls the "but it's right wing therefore it's wrong" cardkl mang
Quote from: Madman Mordo on January 04, 2015, 11:56:01 AMQuote from: -Foxy- on January 04, 2015, 11:54:37 AMQuote from: Madman Mordo on January 04, 2015, 11:45:20 AMYouTubeITT: Kiyo getting smokedB T F OTFOI don't see how.>gets called out for bullshit sources>is subsequently shot the fuck down with actual reputable sources>damage controls the fuck out and pulls the "but it's right wing therefore it's wrong" cardkl mangYou have it the other way round lol
Quote from: God on January 04, 2015, 11:52:06 AMQuote from: Madman Mordo on January 04, 2015, 11:47:35 AMQuote from: Bacon's Shelf on January 04, 2015, 11:12:36 AMEveryone knows that obi wan has the high ground.YOU ARE NEW EMPIRE?Palestinians be likeYou have allowed this religion to twist your mind until now.... until now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy.
You have it the other way round lol
why are mods allowed to shitpost in Serious?
"The moral highground"
